engine oil

[nazrin]

if we use these engines so little compared to an auto engine, and we are using full syn. oil which resist break down and does not turn to acid over time with water, then way doesn't it make sense to top oil and replace filters until you have used the life of the oil more completely ?

[skisol]

Re: engine oil

Hope you did not fill your engine with synthetic oil, that is a big NO on Sea Doo supercharged engines.

[nazrin]

Re: engine oil

what is the reason for a big NO?

Are there seal on the SC that does not like the oil? I know there are plastic parts that don't like it.

[Technical Support]

Re: engine oil

Most synthetic oils have friction modifiers in then and it will cause the supercharger clutches to slip and wear quickly. YOU CAN USE AmsOil marine 10w-40(wcf) and it will work fine, it DOES NOT contain any friction modifiers and is 100% synthetic. All of the non supercharged 4 tec motors can use any good synthetic motor oil.

[nazrin]

Re: engine oil

Would this be a concern for ceramic washers? I can see a loss of boost if the slips increases, From reading and putting two and two together, it seems to be that some dealers where putting syn oil in the new SC 4 tec because that is what they have been doing for years during the non SC motor, when these SC 4 tec's came out with mineral requirements for the SC slip, washer where braking. Seadoo had also put two and two together and blamed this breakage on dealers not following direction on oil type with no real proof hoping they wouldn't have to spend time and money on a redesign, BUT one can see these washers still break with the mineral oil and the evidence of syn. oil doing it is just a thought, it is known that Seadoo really doesn't know why they break, so they just say change at 100 hrs, if they break it's your problem.

Syn Oil applies more lub bearing surface than Mineral, thus reduces friction, thus reduces heat and wear, that said if said washer has less of friction/heat/wear due to increased lub performance then why would the washer wear faster? Yes more slip, but yes less friction, seems to be a wash between syn to mineral, compared to less slip but more friction.

Almost seems as if Syn, sucks in this application because your working your motor less hard to have more FUN, because of the SC having more slip and less boost. But if I protect my engine more with syn and have my new metal washers I feel much better then junk mineral,

Research has shown that syn and mineral protect the engine just as good if the mineral is not let to wear out DURING a normally warm up running motor, BUT mineral does not protect the motor anywhere near as good during a cold startup as syn., which is where about 60% of your wear comes from.

I have personally used syn oil for about 20 years now in all my cars, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and have been using syn in my GTX since I acquired it 2 years ago. I will have to rethink for the AmOil type thou. I will not use syn oil in an engine break in, it just protects that engine too good for a good break in.

[nazrin]

Re: engine oil

The below is from a technical support page of the AMSOIL website. I believe, the page is cited in itself.

TSB: SE-2007-04-19
Date: April 19, 2007
Page 1 of 2
Subject: SEA-DOO® supercharged personal watercraft (PWC) and sport boats
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® Marine Oil 10W-40 (WCF)
Submitted By: D.R.A.
Reviewed By: D.P.
Approval By: A.A. Date: May 11, 2007
Distribution: ___Internal _X_All
OBJECTIVE:

Document compatibility of AMSOIL Formula
4-Stroke Marine Oil 10W-40 (product code WCF) for use in personal watercraft (PWC) and sport boats equipped with wet-clutch protected superchargers.
ISSUES:
The recommendation of SEA-DOO to avoid use of synthetic lubricants in supercharged clutch drive mechanisms on 2004-2007 215 hp SEA-DOO 4-TEC™ series engines used in SEA-DOO personal watercraft (PWC) and sport boats.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
SEA-DOO introduced several PWC and sport boat models equipped with 4-TEC supercharged engines in 2004. A frictional clutch device is incorporated within the engine to provide protection to the supercharger. This clutch consists of two spring-loaded ceramic friction washers which transfer rotation from the engine drive gear to the supercharger drive shaft. The clutch and surrounding support bearings are lubricated with engine oil via oil immersion.
Questions have arisen about the suitability of using certain engine oils in a frictional clutch operation due to compet-ing properties required for a clutch mechanism and a 4- stroke combustion engine. As a result, SEA-DOO cautions owners to select the right engine oil to balance those properties.
SEA-DOO operating manuals and service bulletin #2004- 1 dated October 23, 2003 both state, “oils containing friction modifiers should be avoided as their use may result in excessive slippage of the supercharger clutch. This excessive slippage could result in accelerated wear and a significant reduction in clutch life.” More critical, as the ceramic friction washers wear, they become more susceptible to fracturing. Should one fracture and shatter,
extensive damage to the supercharger assembly would
likely occur. The manuals and bulletin further state that a similar situation could occur if non-mineral-based oils such as SEA-DOO XP-S™ Synthetic 10W-40 (#293-600- 039) are used, and SEA-DOO recommends not using any synthetic oil in supercharger-equipped engines. SEA-DOO only recommends mineral-based XP-S 10W-40 (#219-700-346) for this application.
AMSOIL investigated potential concerns about operational performance through testing focused specifically on the wet-clutch frictional properties of the previously mentioned SEA-DOO 4-stroke crankcase lubricants and AMSOIL (WCF).
The test regime utilized was an SAE No.2 universal wet friction test machine operated in accordance with protocol outlined in JASO standard T903:2006 subsection T904:2006. Dynamic friction, static friction and stop time are outlined as the critical criteria for predicting wet-clutch performance.
AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2007
Ceramic friction washers
Typical supercharger component break-down
Clutch mechanism

The competitive test results for the lubricants are summarized in the table below. Each individual test result was compared with the frictional categories listed within subsection T904 of JASO T903:2006, and summary results were developed based on four frictional categories: MB, MA, MA1 and MA2. Within the standard, category MB represents lubricants with relative higher tendency for slippage in an oil-immersed frictional clutch operation, while category MA2 represents lower relative susceptibility to clutch slippage.
T904 frictional categories and test results
The SEA-DOO 4-stroke mineral-based XP-S 10W-40 oil (#219-700-348) recommended by SEA-DOO specifically for this application qualified as a JASO category MA1 product. SEA-DOO 4-stroke synthetic-based XP-S 5W- 40 oil (#293-600-039) results showed less resistance to slippage and qualified one category lower at JASO MA. These test results support the position of SEA-DOO to disqualify its own synthetic engine oil for this wet-clutch application.
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Marine Oil (WCF) test results show a full category improvement over SEA-DOO 4-stroke mineral-based XP-S 10W-40 oil (#219- 700-348) and a two category improvement over SEA-DOO 4-stroke synthetic-based XP-S 5W-40 oil (#293- 600-039). AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Marine Oil (WCF) has even better wet-clutch properties than the
mineral-based product recommended by SEA-DOO.
Blanket conclusions based on generic categories of lubricants like “synthetic-based” should not be made and are often used as tactics to cause customers to purchase the OEM-branded fluid.
RECOMMENDATION:
AMSOIL confidently recommends owner/operators use AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Marine Oil (WCF) for 2004- 2007 215 hp SEA-DOO 4-TEC series engines without concern for the clutch slipping or wear-caused damage suggested by SEA-DOO.
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Marine Oil (WCF) does not contain friction modifiers and demonstrates better slippage resistance than SEA-DOO 4-stroke mineral-based XP-S 10W-40 oil (219-700-348) in the SAE No. 2 friction test. It delivers excellent wet-clutch performance in 2004-2007 215 hp SEA-DOO 4-TEC series engines used in SEA-DOO personal watercraft (PWC) and sport boats.
REFERENCES:
1. SEA-DOO watercraft service bulletin # 2004-1 dated October 23, 2003.
2. 2007 SEA-DOO operator’s guide, 4-TEC series, #219-000-474.
3. JASO standard T903:2006 sub text T904:2006.
4. SAE No. 2 Universal wet frictional test machine.


TSB: SE-2007-04-19
Date: April 19, 2007
Page 2 of 2
Subject: SEA-DOO supercharged personal watercraft (PWC) and sport boats
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Marine Oil 10W-40 (WCF)
Submitted By: D.R.A.
Reviewed By: D.P.
Approval By: A.A. Date: May 11, 2007
Distribution: ___Internal _X_All