Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

[mlyn]

I need some advice on what to do next.

My 99 Genesis i quit running in about may. Electrical problem, motor is fine. My local lake mechanic took the electrical box off then left town.

Took it to the the polaris dealer by the lake. They replaced the electrical box, flywheel, and stator (maybe more.) They got it to run but it would cut off after a few seconds of running. They did some diagnostics and found that the new stator was bad. The put another new stator on and it runs better now but still cuts off after a few minutes . They have narrowed it down to the fuel system not injecting fuel when it quits. The dealer has had it for almost 4 months now and cannot get it to run. The guy at the dealer have been very nice and but now he says he does not know what else to do. He says right now its worth more parted out.

I have not asked them what I owe them yet, but my question is what should I owe them? They have replaced several parts and put lots of time into the ski, but it still does not run. I know I owe them for their time and effort, but I'm not sure what would be fair.

Bill had a thread about a ski that he spents lots of time and money on that turned out to be a simple fix. Bill have you ever had one you just couldn't fix?

[99gp1200]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

If they can't fix it you owe them $0.00

[dank]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

Since it is not under warranty you the owner are responcible for all troubleshooting and parts used. If it takes a long time or several parts to identify the problem see if the dealer will work with you on the cost of parts and labor. Try to be nice and since they didn't break it they are not to be held accountable for the repair costs "parts and labor".

The FICT systems are very good at helping with repairs make sure the dealer is using the program to check codes and test compents.

To the other guy that posted that they don't owe anything the dealer should of told him that since he has an intermitant electrical problem and I am guessing the FICT system is not reporting any trouble codes he may need a compleate new electrical system and the labor to install it at that point the customer could decide if he wants to go ahead with the repairs or have a four thousand dollar planter.

Normaly when I have a problem like this I use all the information avalible to narrow it down to the most likely cause. In some cases you can only norrow it down to a few components and you have to rely on experiance with that model to decide what part to replace first.

[dank]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

Based on the info it sounds like the 48V coil is not working or ignition module is defective or overheating. I have also had FICT system give problems from a shorted out wire harness. Was it used in salt water?

The EMM is a $1100 part and the Coil is $300.

[mlyn]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

Here is some more info. At one point they replaced the flywheel, then one of the magnets fell off the new flywheel. So they had to replace it again. Then they found that the stator was bad and repaced it. Then they found that the new stator was defective and replaced it again. So I know I don't want to pay for the labor to reinstall defective parts. I'm wondering if the parts that did not fix it (the second flywheel and second stator) could be returned? I do know that they have the diagnostic software or computer for the ski. He said it was not showing any bad codes now.


It has never been in salt water. The tech thinks its a bad wire somewhere, the problem is figuring out which one without putting major more time into it.

[dank]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

You should not have to pay for them to replace a defective part and the part should have at least a 30 day warranty from Polaris that would cover the part.
I am not sure of the warranty if it will cover labor but I think since it was installed by a Polaris dealer they will pay for the labor again.

In your case you should only have to pay for one flywheel and one stator if they both failed during the part warranty period.

I had a FICT wire harness fail once before and could never find the problem with it. I spent several hours with the harness removed from the ski on the bench checking per the wire diagram but ended up ordering a new one and it solved it right away. I only charged the customer for the time spent removeing and installing the harness since I felt bad that he was having such a problem with his ski.

Since that is just about all that is left with the injection system. You have the following parts in the system EMM, flywheel, TPS, Barrametric presure sensor, wire harness. I would get the part and spen a half hour labor to swap it before I spent hours trying to fix it and may end up needing to order it anyway.

[1fastski.com]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

the FICHT computer is water cooled , it will shut down when hot , make sure the water line going though the computer is clear . { try to blow though the line that goes into the computer from the block } it should be 100% free flow . if not the computer over heats after 5 min of running and shuts down . as for paying the dealer OR any shop that can not figure out or fix your ski you owe them 0 . not a penny . nice or not you should not be paying for a guessing game or for them to learn on your time . now if they tell you { this is the problem its going to be this much to fix } thats a differnt story BUT find out how long the problem should take to figure out { for a dealer } every thing has a flat rate .

[dank]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

It would store a code if it was overheating.

Not sure about the dealers in your area but the ones around here charge by the hour they will normaly say that it will take some diagnostic time first to determin the problem and give you a quote for that repair you can approve the repair or not at that point. If it does not fix the problem then you can have them take the parts off they used and give you your ski back and only pay for the diagnostic time normaly less than a hour.

If you want someone to fix the problem you will have to pay for such service. I don't think there are many shops out there wanting to take a job that is that open ended. In a lot of cases it is not cut and dry to what is causeing the problem so more extensive diagnostic time is needed wich may include changeing parts as needed. In a lot of service guides it will state to replace certain parts to eliminate the defective part. This can be very costley and you should be informed up front.

The flat rate guide it for warranty repairs only as part of thier dealer agreement. Most shops I know of take flat rate times two for a blind quotation on repairs.

Any other dealer tech's out there? How does your dealership handle this?

[1fastski.com]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

if i took my ski to a dealer { or anyone } and they charged me for diagnostic time that didnt fix my ski i would not pay them , if that was the case your just giving your money for somone to guess even if the guess was wrong , flat rate is what should be charged dealer or not, its the time a repair should be able to be done by a professional . very few problems go over flat rate . theres tomany parts changers out there and not enough techs . if it dont fix the problem no money is deserved , thats how i do biz anyhow . I charge 1 hr to tell somone what they need to fix there ski , if the repairs are done then the diagnostic time is waived .

PS i had a kawi in the shop this yr with the FICHT FI that was doing the same thing , 2 dealers had the ski for weeks nothen showed on there test , it was a clogged cooling line to the computer . i would assume that the dealer who has a ski for months and cant fix it prob dont know how to use the computer to get codes lol

[FastUltra]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

I am not sure why they had so many problems with the magneto. Thats very strange, but I think your problem is in the generation of the 45v I have worked with several of these Fitch systems in Kawis and from what you are saying (as long as there is not to much difference) I would look at 2 things, the 45v capacitor, as well as the 45v coils in the magneto. When it stops running if you start it right up again will it run? Also when it dies does the check engine light come on? The most common thing in any FI system (jetski or car) that will cause a start, die, start, is low fuel pressure (bad fuel pump) Low injector voltage (magneto or capacitor) How comfortable with wiring are you? I might beable to walk you through a few test you could do on the water when It dies.

Hope this helps,
Paul

[dank]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

1fastski.com
Well than your better than most.

But you did say "I charge 1 hr to tell somone what they need to fix there ski , if the repairs are done then the diagnostic time is waived ." but if not they paid an hour labor for someone not to fix thier ski.

All dealers have to account for the time spent working on a customers ski. It is either paid by the customer, dealership ot the mechanic. You sure don't want your mechanic to feel like he is working for free. If that happends it normaly just sits around with no resolution.

I am not knocking your buisness or impling that is how you charge, only trying to tell him what to expect from the dealers that I have worked with. Maybe things are different in other areas.

Case in point a local dealer charged a customer of mine a half hour diagniostic time $45 to correct a problem under the extended warranty. They said the exteded warranty threw Kawasaki didn't cover diagnostic time only the actual repair. He was so tired of taking it back for one repair after the other that he just paid the bill and picked it up. He then took it to me and said sell it and went out and got a FX HO.

[1fastski.com]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

yes if i tell somone { you need to do this to fix the ski } then they dont get it done they pay for the est for the job . if they get the job done then its part of the repair bill . BUT if what i do didnt work i cant charge somone for it . its sounds like this dealer has many hrs playing a guessing game . that should not fall on the customers bill .

[mlyn]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

I talked to the tech at the dealer today. He said he is going to see if polaris will fix it themselves at the tech training school in Conyers GA. He is not sure if they will since they are getting out of the PWC business.

He said that when the ski dies it will instantly crank back up and run for several minutes. He has swapped the emm with one from a working ski and it did the same thing. He thinks its a bad wire somewhere causing an open circuit and sending a false signal to the emm to shut the ski down.

Anyway we'll see what happens.....

[1fastski.com]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

have you tryed a differnt dealer or shop ? i would think somone on these fourms would know somone who knows what there doing close to you . your dealer sounds nice { not to smart lol } but nice i still woulnt pay for nice :-)

[mlyn]

Re: Dealer can't fix Genesis i FICHT

I was actually referred to this Polaris dealer by two other dealers. My local dealer doesn't do many skis (mostly atv's) and and doesnt have the computer diagnostic equipment. The second dealer in the area said they send their problem ski's to the guy who has mine. So I feel like he is well respected by the other techs around. His place is right by a huge lake so I imagine they get lots of experience.