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Thread: SBT Quality

  1. #1
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    From
    So. Califorinia
    Posts
    8

    Default SBT Quality

    First SBT 951 motor siezed at about 25 hrs, threw rod thru case. No expanation from SBT, but did send warranty replacement. That one went about 20 hours, then wrist pin circlip (which is WRONG style, too loose, and prob installed incorrectly) came loose and made its way thru engine. Caused seizure of mag piston, and caused weld to crack on crank journal.
    Since out of warranty, I got a chance to see SBT quality first hand:
    -Non-matched cases, .004 out-of-round bores for main bearings. (but this is fine according to SBT)
    -Crank case filled with excess sealant from SLOPPY join. Sealant squeezed into bearing and seal areas, as well as windage areas in crank case.
    -Crank taper on mag end looks to have been pounded with hammer. (I had to fix this myself to get flywheel to locate true.
    -Attempt at helicoil repair pulled out and had to be re-done by me.
    -Rave valve bellows incorrectly installed, not allowing valve to close completely. More sloppy work that user had to repair.
    Not to mention the obvious that SBT could not assemble a motor to even make 30 hours. Thinking SBT? Don't do it. Spend 400 more and get a properly rebuilt motor with OEM parts and matching cases.
    P.S. I'm sure you won't post this, but I think a reply is at least in order.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SBT Quality

    Would you please post or email me the name the purchase was under so I can look into this? We're very sorry you have had such difficulties, I want to see if we can help. tech@sbtontheweb.com
    SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
    We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
    Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

  3. #3
    Joined
    Feb 2004
    From
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,601

    Default Re: SBT Quality

    i hope you post your name or atleast the number off the engine so people dont think your just a fake poster . from hanging out here i see the SBT is not like OTHER sites that delet post that are not in there favor . people see the good and bad here and when you build 1000s of engines there not all going to be perfect BUT i have yet to see one fail that was installed properly and takin care of .

    as with any warranty after its over its over in most cases even under warranty OEM wont cover damages .
    PRIDE IN SERVICE<br /> <img src="http://www.sbtontheweb.com/images/forposts/4609/1.jpg" alt=" - " />

  4. #4
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    From
    So. Califorinia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: SBT Quality

    No Problem,


    I'm Scott Wagner, the engine was purchased by Bobby Drake.
    I can post PO number, and engine numbers soon.
    Won't be able to tell cylinder number for sure since original numbers have been ground off, and new ones stamped on. (forgot to mention that!) But I'll post what's on there.
    Let me know what else I can do to verify this. I would not bother with this at all, but I'm that disappointed....

  5. #5
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    Default Re: SBT Quality

    OK, I'll look into it.
    SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
    We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
    Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

  6. #6
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    From
    So. Califorinia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: SBT Quality

    ....BUT i have yet to see one fail that was installed properly and takin care of .

    I've seen two in a row......Unless you can tell me how I caused a circlip to come loose.

    ....as with any warranty after its over its over in most cases even under warranty OEM wont cover damages .

    My assumption is that a quality rebuild with OEM parts might just go more than 20 hours.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SBT Quality

    Mr. Wagner,

    Can you please send us some pictures of the piston that seized and the broken crankshaft weld. Anything’s possible, but we have never seen a circlip snap a crank weld and we would like to better understand this situation. Also, please note that the circlip that we use is not the "wrong type" it is only a different type than that used by the OE. The type we use is quite normal in many applications and is designed for our pistons.

    As for your other comments regarding our quality,

    1) 0.004” out of round bores – How did you measure this? Are you absolutely sure about your accuracy? At 0.004, that’s on the high side of our specifications, however it’s not really an issue here since the main bearings did not fail.

    2) Sloppy sealant – This is tough to comment on without actually seeing it, but if it’s as you described, it is too much and not normal for us. Although, once again it does not seem to be related to the problem at hand.

    3) Failed Helicoil – I assume it held fine until you started taking the engine apart. We loctite all of the bolts and they will from time to time pull out a Helicoil. Helicoil is the best product on the market, and as a mechanic I am sure that you understand that strip out bolt holes are a normal fact of life when working with aluminum blocks (especially ones that live around water).

    4) Rave Valve Bellows – We will need a better description of this one. We can’t figure out how a bellows can be installed incorrectly and cause the valve not to close.

    And as for your last comment in your original post, your thread will not be deleted. If you read the description of this section, it says “uncensored”. You can discuss the quality of your SBT product, but please do not question our integrity. We have never deleted a single negative thread. Look for yourself, you’ll find them. But also note that over 99% are favorable. Our goal is 100% and we are sorry that you had a bad experience.
    Last edited by Technical Support; 05-16-2005 at 12:56 PM.
    SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
    We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
    Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

  8. #8
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    From
    So. Califorinia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: SBT Quality

    I will be glad to supply pictures. Stay tuned.

    The circlip did not directly snap the crank weld, it was the seizeure caused by the loose circlip. I am assuming a seize could lead to a cracked weld. Either way, after cylinders/pistons were removed, it was clear that the crank was not rotating freely. (maybe it never did considering the cases) This is why I went on to inspect crank, and saw the crack. Crank did turn freely as soon as case bolts were loosened up.

    Some quick comments on your notes:

    1) 0.004” out of round bores – How did you measure this? Are you absolutely sure about your accuracy? At 0.004, that’s on the high side of our specifications, however it’s not really an issue here since the main bearings did not fail.
    Cases assembled, no crank and measured with locking internal distance gauge and micrometer. I am very confident on accuracy as all bores were similar. "horizontal" measurement (at split line) was good at about .002 under bearing size. 90 degrees from this (parellel with cylinders) was about .006 under bearing size. Should be no suprise since the cases were not machined together. And it IS an issue. This engine would never see high hours with bearings squished out of round. My post was about quality, not how this engine failed.

    2) Sloppy sealant – This is tough to comment on without actually seeing it, but if it’s as you described, it is too much and not normal for us. Although, once again it does not seem to be related to the problem at hand.

    Agree not related to problem, but quality. Most of this was removed to get accurate readings on bore after putting cases back together, but photos will still show some. It was alot. 1/8" to 3/16" beads of it hanging over in spots.


    3) Failed Helicoil – I assume it held fine until you started taking the engine apart. We loctite all of the bolts and they will from time to time pull out a Helicoil. Helicoil is the best product on the market, and as a mechanic I am sure that you understand that strip out bolt holes are a normal fact of life when working with aluminum blocks (especially ones that live around water).
    I was not clear on this. Bad helicoil discovered at inital install of starter bolt. I don't mean to sound overly critical, but it was clear just by looking that it would not hold. There was no where near enough material to work with. Whoever installed it HAD to know it would not hold. It was that loose.

    4) Rave Valve Bellows – We will need a better description of this one. We can’t figure out how a bellows can be installed incorrectly and cause the valve not to close.
    Small end of bellows was not pushed down all the way over the bore on one side.
    So bellows was sittng at an angle. Spring pressure alone was not enough to push bellows/valve down all the way. So when open to atmoshere, rave was open about 1/4". Pushing the small end of bellows down all the way to where it seats in the grove fixed it.
    Also, at the risk of sounding cocky, I want to clarify I do know engines, I'm not just some guy complaining with nothing to back the comments. I'm an FAA certified airframe and powerplant mechanic, with some 25 years of experience on all manner of engines. Wow, that sounds arrogant, but I wanted to be clear.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: SBT Quality

    These pics were emailed to me. Comments are in response to notes in the pictures:

    1,2: This is just damage from losing a clip, that is typical damage from losing a clip.

    3: There is nothing wrong. There are no Sea-Doo serial numbers to begin with. This is our stamped SBT serial number for warranty tracking.

    4: Helicoil inserts are a standard practice for repairing threads.

    5: Additional charges a customer pays is in relation to the core they provide. If a customer was charged $800 it was because their case was totaled, and they chose not find a used case to complete the core. They were charged for the replacement cost of the parts needed to complete their core. The damage to the reed valve area is very typical on a 951, and we do not even charge customers for it. Yes it's possible the remanufactured engine you get will have some welding repairs on it. We gaurantee all our weld repairs for life. There is nothing wrong with this weld.

    6: Sealant will always squeeze in and out of the engine parts being sealed, this is very typical and does not cause any harm.

    7: There is nothing wrong with this weld. It is NOT a broken weld, the line is simply a result of the weld cooling. This has not broken or twisted as posted.
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    Last edited by Technical Support; 05-17-2005 at 02:00 PM.
    SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
    We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
    Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

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