Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

1999 GP1200's

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 1999 GP1200's

    I purchased two new 1999 GP1200's in May of 1999.
    May 2001, after 124 hours on both SKI's, the motors seized up. No waranty. Dealer said they
    weren't winterized correctly. It cost me over
    4K to get them both fixed.

    The failure was lean condition on number three
    cylinder. The only symptoms were the ski would
    stall at high speed. Would be hard to start, but
    would start. On one of them, the piston skirt was
    broken which trashed the cylinder.

    What troubles me is that they both failed at the
    exact same time with identical hours on them. Has
    anyone else had a similar problem ? Any input
    would be appreciated.

    Thanks

  • #2
    I would say with 99% certainty that it was not a mechanical defect, but as the dealer suggested, improper procedures on someone's part.

    What exact winterizing procedures did you follow? How long was it in storage? If you didn't use it until Mayish, I assume you probably put it away before October, so it was sitting for a GOOD 7-8 months. For a layup that long, you really need to completely drain the fuel system and get as much fuel out of the carbs as possible, which is not easy to do. Even with stabilized gas, even assumming it was properly mixed OUTSIDE the ski and run throught he tank for the last few gallons, after 7-8 months you could still have deposits and varnish in your carbs, and/or dirty internal carb filters.

    What you describe is exactly what I'm talking about. The #3 cylinders/carbs are the first fed int he GP1200 fuel system. If you had bad/old gas, or crap to plug the filters, the #3 would be the first to go.

    What you describe as a 'stall' was really a seizure. These kinds of two-stroke enignes do not 'stall' at high speed. After seizing, the piston(s) have expanded and must wiat to cool down and contract before it will restart. At that point you have done severe damage to the motor and should baby it back to shore, and tear it down for repair. I suspect you continued to ride them after the event, figuring it 'stalled'. This led to further damage, and a broken piston from the extended wear and tear.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the response. The ski's sat from
      late Oct to early May, around 7 months. They
      were winterized by the book. Fuel stabalizer
      ran thru the system, enginge fogged, oil in the
      cylinders. They were stabalized the first two
      years the same way with no problems. Since
      they have been rebuilt, the dealer does the winterizing. I guess I was just not willing
      to accept that I didn't winterize them right.
      Must have just been lucky the first two times.

      On a side note. I've been reading about your
      opinion on premixed fuel and oil injection on
      the gp12's. The dealer doesn't recommend premix
      and won't warranty any failures. I'm thinking
      it will avoid more problems than it will create,
      but haven't made the change yet. Have you ever
      seen it cause a problem ?

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        If they sat for 7 months every year, I'd say you probably didn't get lucky, but just slowly got the carbs crudded up. I recommend a carb rebuild every year if you lay them up that long. That's less than $100 doing it yourself, and it's not hard as long as you pay attention to detail while you work.

        As for pre-mix, I wouldn't even consider it yet on 2-3 year old craft. After 5-6 years, I would strongly consider you change the pump out though, if you don't want to go pre-mix. It's still too new to warrant a new unit unless you suspect it has failed.

        As far as problems with pre-mix, the only problems are user induced, as in not mixing it correctly, or when a guest fills it with straight gas, etc. As for warranty concerns, obviously an oil-related failure would be highly suspect, however they can't void coverage of unrealted items. Good dealers know this.

        [ February 27, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Bryan Glynn ]

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a response I received on a different forum
          for this same issue:Here is the new part number for the updated valve body. 6M6-24413-01-00.

          DAVE:

          You can see this part on the Riva Parts Finder in the 99Yamaha/Carb/section. It came to be in 2000. Apparently the new part has extra webs on the inlet valve which is to prevent the check valve from kinking. They are about $20 each. OUCH!! From what I've read, the original fault originates from the crankcase pulse received at the carbs when the case has excess fuel in it caused by the very typical 2 minute cranking time that owners usually encounter when the carbs have dried up a bit over say a week. Consequently it takes some moderate hours before the valve fails. As I mentioned before, the PTO carb is pulsed seperately so the pulse is stronger.

          Guys that are running primers from new or near new probably won't have this problem.

          2Fast:

          Not much more I can advise you on. I can tell you that at my lake most folks do absolutely nothing to their skis and they seem to run and run. Some make a miserable attempt at fogging but hardly anyone uses fuel stabilizer. Most all of these skis (either Sea-doo or Yamaha) come out of their boat houses on June 1st and most are away by the start of September when everyone goes back to the city.

          Personally, I add fuel stabilzer and I don't run my carbs dry or anything special and I never have carb gumming problems and my skis sit buried in snow for 6 months of the year, hehe. The same thing goes for my sleds and they are much more prone to carb leaning than any ski is.

          I've heard of your problem before in my area and the dealers could not figure it out because they phoned my performance guy for advise and he had no idea.

          I think your problem is more complicated than possible gummed fuel. Your dealer would have/should have seen that when they did the rebuild and it would have showed up in the low speed circuts as well.

          As far as premix. Well, it's very easy to do on the ski. I'd say after 250 hours you might want to convert. I do not believe they just stop working rather they tend to start pumping a higher ratio. Personally, I add 3/4 ounce oil to every gallon on my injection but I use a full synthetic. BTW, I have a 97GP1200

          Comment


          • #6
            While I have heard of this problem, I'll say it is fairly rare, and much more common is dirty carbs.

            You can VERY easily find out which of these problems caused your failure as soon as you rebuild your carbs, which you have to do either way. Bent check valves are obvious, and so is crud in the filter/passages.

            The updated body is only $13.90 at www.epowersports.com, BTW.

            Comment


            • #7
              I find it very puzzling that both GP's went at the exact same time. The probability of that happening is extremely low.

              Bryan G, other than the witnerization theory, what else may have happened?

              Comment


              • #8
                And BTW, the extra webbing doesn't completely solve that problem - here's one we have here that didn't survive, it actually failed in two places, between the additional webbing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  SJ, you are right, the odds are very much in favor of my original suggestion, being that they failed at the same time.

                  Other than improper winterization, other procedures such as flushing, would be my suspicion, but I stick to my original suggestion at this time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The reason for this post was to determine if this is an inherent problem for 1999 GP12's. The motors
                    on both ski's have already been rebuilt last May.
                    Rode the ski's all last summer with no issues. I
                    just wanted to know if my local Yamaha dealer hid
                    the real reason for my ski's failing. He placed the blame soely on me. I work on telephone
                    systems, not PWC motors, so I am not aware of
                    the various failures and what causes them. After
                    spending 15K on two new ski's and then two years
                    later they have wasted motors, doesn't say much
                    for Yamaha or the reliability of there product.
                    Some folks don't do any type of winterizing and
                    have no issues after sitting for over 8 months.
                    I ride my ski's hard, but I thought I was
                    taking care of them according to the maint manual.
                    The fact that they both failed at the exact same time indicates something is wrong with the design.
                    If I can prove this, I will go back to Yamaha
                    and ask for an explanation.

                    marke@nortelnetworks.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Yamaha 1200 is actually one of the absolute most bullet proof engines made. It is not uncommon for them to see 700+ hours before needing a rebuild. There were some issues with the first year (1997) cranks twisting, but that's about it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do you by chance work for Yamaha ?

                        The opionions vary from rebuild the carbs each
                        year to not doing a thing over the winter season.
                        I've owned Yamaha all my life. From the VMAX to
                        the R1 to YZ250's. Thats why I bought Yamaha
                        Ski's. This is not what I exspected. So what your
                        saying is that if you buy a Jet Ski, be prepared
                        to become a Jet Ski machanic or have the bucks to
                        afford the dealer. Funny thing, never once had
                        to rebuild any other Yamaha product.

                        The other side of the story is that they had to
                        rebuild one of the Ski's four times before they
                        got it right. They did the original rebuild on
                        both ski's. One failed five minutes out. Dealer
                        stated that I didn't break it in right. I know
                        I did. They rebuilt it again. This time I made
                        them break it in. They did, five minutes out
                        and it blew again. They called it a four corner
                        seizure. They rebuilt it again and found they
                        were missing a washer on the bottom end. I was
                        impressed that they admitted it was there fault,
                        but was not impressed with any of the rest of it.

                        Either way, they were running great when I took
                        them to the dealer for winterizing last Fall. I
                        guess time will tell the story. They said I won't
                        have this problem again, as long as they winterize them. I scared not too............

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          LOL - No, I don't work for Yamaha, I just ride the exact ski you are talking about [img]smile.gif[/img] See my title on the side? Engine look familiar? [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

                          OK, now we have som inconsitancies. You now say the Dealer winterized them for you? You said you did it, before. If the Dealer winterized them, and then said they failed because of improper winterization....um....why did you pay for them to be fixed again?

                          Yes I read your post on the other forum and it sounds like you have a really crappy dealer...but I still think that when you open your carbs you will find trash and varnish rather than a broken valve.

                          As for those with the opinion of "don't do anything for winterizing", well, those of us in the industry know better, and believe me, we talk to those kind of shadetree mechanics all the time. They are wrong, plain and simple. These same kind of people say "break it in like you're going to ride it", "you don't need to flush it", and "higher octane means more horsepower".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No inconsitancies here...........

                            Read from the top. Ski's were bought new in 1999.
                            In May of 2001, last Spring, they blew and were
                            taken to the dealer and fixed. Rode ski's all
                            summer (2001) and had dealer winterize them in
                            Fall of 2001.

                            I should have taken my time and dug deeper into
                            the problem at the time, but it was May and just
                            starting to get warm and I wanted my ski's fixed
                            now. If they fail again, we will be talking.

                            Thanks for all the input.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ahhh....gotcha, my bad [img]graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

                              Well, I can't stand the suspense - open up your carbs, man!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X