3 Hour Old SBT crank bearing failure

[Fercho]

That is exactly what I asked Richard. Why are they taking your core if it is no good.

They told me just to send it in he said........

[Bryan Glynn]

Interesting that you don't have any answers to my questions Fernando.

As far as the 'non-rebuildable crank' goes - other shops use different techniques for remanufacturing the cranks - just because one shop can't use it doesn't necessarily mean we can't as well. NO DETAILS of EXACTLY why it was 'non-rebuildable' to the other shop have been given. No comments can be made as to the actual condition or value of it to us.

If no mention was made back to the owner when the core was recived, the damage was obviously something we were not concerned with due to our manufacturing techniques, or it was something we could repair at no charge. If the owner was contacted then there was a charge for damage or replacement - simple as THAT.

[WppRacing]

If SBT is sure that the cause of the crank failure is not the cause of the bearing then why dont you take it back and inspect it. There is always a chance that the bearing did fail. This seems that it would put all the BS to a rest.
IMO it seems like you want to place the blame somewhere else and not look at the cause .
I have used SBT eninge in SeaDoo,Polaris and Kawasaki without a problem. The GPR is a different can of worms. [img]graemlins/cwm3.gif[/img]

[Bryan Glynn]

We are by NO means in ANY words saying that. AS I SAID it is *possible*, along with other possibilities. Like I said it's not up to me - to me it's a matter of it being out of warranty, plain and simple.

[WppRacing]

I agree with you 100%. But this is different situation. If you buy a crank today and dont install it for 45 days does it only leave you with 45 day warranty ? Maybe the warranty clause needs to state something like 90days from the date of purchase. [img]graemlins/spit.gif[/img]

[Bryan Glynn]

Maybe you need to read more carefully:

From the Warranty, second sentance from the Crank Warranty, section C> " SBT warrants its crankshafts and other engine parts to be free from defects in parts and workmanship for ninety (90) days from date of original purchase.

YES if you purchase a crank today and do not use it for 45, you have 45 days left on your warranty.

I cannot believe how many people want to disregard the warranty contract in these situations. Out of warranty is out of warranty, people.

[WppRacing]

That states it plain and simple.
When you buy it use it.................or your SOL
[img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img]

[raider1100]

I posted on the riva board. i thought SBT shoudl cover the crank at first but then i started thinking if they cover his crank then everyone will come out of the woodwork wanting their crank covered also out of warranty so I can see why SBT said nope youre not covered and I really cant blame them. personally i would cover a portion of it but thats inconsequential, but I went looking over the pics that Fercho posted and this is what I wrote on the RIVA board

hey dude I was talking to a frined of mine and i was looking at the pics really closely
and i see a couple of things that make me wonder a few things.
one pic youre showing the rod and journals and they are completely dry. Now I understand that the bearing heating up would cook oil off the surface but there shoudl of been some film on there. on the top of the piston there is no oil not even a little film. same with the head dome its completely dry.
there is a pic of the rod end and it looks liek rust on the sides. what is that its looks liek red veins near the thrust washers on either side of the rod.The only thing I can assume is that you wiped them down to take the pic.
Could it be possible that the oil injection failed on the #2 cylinder? My buddys crank failed jsut liek yours and it had a lot more oil coating everythign than the pics you have.It had too tight clearances. its tough to really see and make a decision from pics, but I dont doubt you the crank failed.
I also dont blame SBT for not warrantying the crank since youre out of the warranty. If it was me I would of warrantied the crank but I sat there and thought abotu it and if I was in SBTs shoes i wouldnt do it either only because if I did it for you I would have to do it for everyone who is out of warranty. if It was me I would warranty it under special circumstances, but thats inconsequential. its liek buying a car and having a 3 year 36ooo mile warranty. now the car has 20 000 miles on it and its 4 years old youre still out of warranty.
Anyway it really sucks what happend, and mabey SBT will do help you out with the crank since Im sure this thread isnt doing that much good for their image. I think you went abotu it the wrong way. What you shoudl of done is gone and spoke to the owner directly.
Rob

[smithsil]

Everyone-- It was obvious the crank bearing was defective. If you take a look at the pictures you will see thats the cause. Im almost 100% sure.

Here is the problem with your argument Fercho:

Your warrenty is for 90 days. It has nothing to do with hours on the bearing itself. You were well aware of the warrenty. There is nothing you can do. I know the crank was stored fine and installed fine. Doesnt matter. SBT would of hounored your warrenty if you followed the rules. That really sucks. Its defective and theres nothing you can do about it.

Bryan, can t you cut this guy a break???

silas

[Bryan Glynn]

I'm so glad to have such an expert here that can factually say that the bearing is at fault WITHOUT EVER SEEING IT. You are the best troubleshoother I've ever seen!

Tell ya what - I have a motherboard here that just failed - why don't I take a picture of it, you can tell me you are certain it was a defect, and then I can get ASUS to cover it for me even though it's out of warranty...deal?

What happened to common sense in the world? Seriously.

[Bryan Glynn]

Not comparing a crank to motherboard, if you don't get the jist of that comparison I'm not going to waste my breath explaining it.

We need to see things in hand, to check tolerances, check for all possible types of damage, check for any abnormal material wear pattens, look for discolerations, do pressure checks, etc. - there is a gamut of checks we do to RGA's so we can determine if we do indeed have a problem we need to address. That is the primary purpose for getting warranty failures back - if we didn't care about improving our products we would simply replace things on a whim, or just core them coming back.

As we DO strive to improve our products, every failure is diagnosed, and if we do see a pattern emmerging it gives us the invaluable data needed to make those improvements.

When dealing with engine warranties, we have 1000x more of a controlled enviroment condition to make our determinations against. With just a crank sale, we have zero control over every variable except the actual construction of the crank - the materials, tolerances and specs. Everything else is int he hands of other people - hense the 90 day vs. 1 year warranty on cranks. Having that crank back given that we didn't build the engine, and it's already been disassembled and 'cleaned', no we *probably* could not gather much valuable data from it. If it was in one of our complete engines, yes.

[Blaine]

Bryan !

Please, Please, Please warranty that crank ! That way I can order my motors NOW at the beginning of winter here in Maine when it would be impossible to ride in my area because the Lakes are frozen. Then I would be entitled to a 18 month warranty under your New warranty policy right ?

OH wait a minute, I just realized that you are a professional company that clearly states your warranty, NAAAA I will wait until I am closer to be able to run it in the water.

This is my point folks, I buy MANY motors a year from SBT ( not 1 warranty yet ), I would have a better case than most to have my warranty extended because I can prove I didn't use the motor or crank, But I read the warranty page, so I will order my motors in May. Warranty's are written for a purpose, I say we just all have the same rules and the same warranty and that way we can all get along just fine. I don't understand why Bryan even keeps this in the Yamaha Tech. section, After this post you should start a new thread header "I am special, This is my unreasonable request"

[smithsil]

bryan, come on bud. You cant go comparing a motherboard to a crank. A motherboard has so many microcircuits and such there is really no way of telling what went wrong from the outside. 1000 times more complicated than a crank. you cant even compare. BTW-- you should of bought a FIC.

True, there could be a tolerance issue going on there but i dont think so. You can tell there was some wicked heat right on the bearing itself. Lets say the tolerances were srewed up. That bearing got wicked hot. The piston would of gotten ALOT hotter, and chances are would of seized up good. But thats not the case...

silas

[Bryan Glynn]

Bottom line is, I don't *care* what you think. You can speculate based on those pics all you want, it really doesn't matter.

[Erin]

Bryan,

Its a real pickle selling components that other people are installing. You really lose control of it once it leaves your facility. Do OEM's even offer warranties on new cranks?

I know of no easy solution. Have an inspection report (tolerances) for each component that the owner must sign off on before they accept the piece? You could put some kind of security seal that they have to break before they install it. They could take a picture of the newspaper (with date) with them cutting the seal and then use that as the "install date". Of course they'd have to email the pic to you immediately and you'd file it.

None of that is practical [img]smile.gif[/img] You'd have to charge more than a new crank costs probably. I hate to see anyone unhappy, you've been nothing more than helpful to me.

Erin