3 Hour Old SBT crank bearing failure

[smithsil]

Whatever Bryan, im not going to start a pissing match with you. We were discussing our thoughts on it and i shared what i though, in an acceptable manner. I think You should respond with the same courtesy, thats not to hard right??? Were all adults here...lets act our age.

comments like "the bottom line is i dont *care* what you think"

are not very mature. Especally from the moderator himself. Im sick of discussing this with someone who doesnt give a $hit about what i think.

silas

[Bryan Glynn]

I'm sorry if that came off overly negative, but the fact remains that someone's opinion of a part they have never seen, in regards to us not refunding $475 to someone with an out of warranty part, is irrelavent.

[allcool]

No mention of any diagnostic procedures have ever been made - something we do to each engine warranty return.

What are the diagnostic procedures sbt uses?

Could sbt possibly benefit from knowing what happened to the crank?... or do you already know from past sbt gpr crank experience?

raider1100
Fercho said Richard used premix, not oil injection.

To compare a crank to a motherboard..... hmmmm.

[2FST4U]

I think you folks need to get off of Bryans
back. He has already said it wasn't his
decision. Who are you to think that the
warranty doesn't apply. This is the first
direct assault I have seen on Bryan and
SBT since I've been here. Lighten UP.... :D

[smithsil]

Well, im not insulting Bryan.
And to be Frank, he should not honour the warrenty, it is obvious the custumer blow it and waited to long. Now if the custumer had installed the crank, and had the bearing go out on him, within the 90 day period well then h'ed problably have a new crank right now. But thats not the case. Its not about the warrenty...
All i said is i think its a bad crank bearing. Then Bryan insulted me. Why? i dont know.

silas

[Tom Cotti]

I have been working in and around the PWC, Motorcycle, and Boating industry for 19 years, both recreationally and professionally. I have personally witness the growth of SBT over the years. I have been using SBT's re-manufactured parts and motors for several years, for myself and customers and have not had any serious problems with SBT products. So hats off to the crew of SBT.

So getting to my point of why I am writing for the first time, as I looked at the photo's of the crankshaft, a much closer inspection would always help, but what bothers me is the fact that the failed cylinder and sides of the piston is not clearly shown. This would also help any professional technician to see the possibility of another possible failure other than just that of a failed crank and damages to the top of pistons and areas of head, related to just a crankshaft failure. It just suprises me that no other technician has questioned this, as far as I have seen.

A warranty and fine print is put into a contract for a reason. It is not up to SBT to ask the customer if all other parts are already at hand. Every shop knows that when ordering parts, there is a chance of backorder's. All warranty parts should be ordered last, if possible. (There are exceptions.)

I keep going back and forth between the customer and shop's. I do not know who helped in assembling this engine, but if it is a technician that has worked on PWC's, then he knows the above is true. If the customer turned the deaf ear to that technician, then the customer is still at fault and the warranty still stands.

[John Kubiak]

Well said Tom,
And welcome aboard!!!

As a PWC Technical Instructor I have to agree, the pictures do, in fact, show a damaged crank bearing, but no real "evidence" of the actual cause of the failure. There are many items in the crankcases that can cause a bearing to fail in such a manner.

Warranties are in place for a reason, and there are specific requirements that must be met in order to qualify, that's what they call the "fine print".

[Mike K.]

Here is how Yamaha handled an issue with a crank bearing failing 4 weeks out of the 1 year warranty period.

My 01 GPR with 110 hours of use had one of the crank bearings come apart and the race/bearing components went through the #3 cylinder. Damaged were the crank, cylinder, piston, rings and head. Upon inspection by the regional rep, Yamaha decided to extend $1000 toward the repair of this GPR. Obviously they determined by examination that a crank bearing had failed and decided to try and compensate me for the damage even though the warranty had expired. Most likely Yamaha has experienced bearing failures with the GPR and wanted to ensure that I would continue to buy Yamaha products and made the decision to compensate me even thought the warranty had expired.

Granted the situation expressed by Fercho may differ, however would it not be prudent to examine the crank bearing? Can you imagine if SBT found that they had a bearing vendor that delivered not only one bad bearing (Ferchos crank) but many others that are now being assembled in re-manufactured cranks. Think of the expenses that could be curtailed if these cranks with bad bearings were not shipped in re-manufactured engines to customers only to be returned within the warranty period due to a crank bearing failure and the resulting damage!!

I also know exactly what it is like to be in Ferchos shoes with a crank that has disintegrated. I purchased a rebuild trued and welded crank for a 99GP1200 back a few years ago. After less than five hours of use the center connecting rod cracked in half and self destructed, both cases, the starter, reed cage assembly, cylinder, piston, head, rings and my temper. Riva, after very similar arguing, only would cover the cost of the crank which was really immaterial in comparison to all the other expenses associated with this crank. Most likely Riva didn't incur any additional cost by reimbursing me anyway since they probably returned the crank to their vendor for a refund.

My opinion is that you should examine the crank and make a conclusion as to the cause. From my experience purchasing bearings for the hydraulic components of a commercial jet aircraft fleet for a major airline, I can see no reason why an examination would not indicate cause of bearing failure and even duration of operation before failure.

[Bryan Glynn]

You have one very important difference. Your waranty was on a COMPLETE engine...on a $7500 purchase. In this case we are dealing with a $475 purcahse on a part alone. We had no control over the installation, condition or setup of any other part. They had the luxury of being able to inspect every other part and the complete engine condition to make a determination of failure.

I guarantee you that Yamaha would extend no such coverage to a crank sale alone. Apples and Oranges.

[Pat M]

Originally posted by Bryan Glynn:
Bottom line is, I don't *care* what you think. You can speculate based on those pics all you want, it really doesn't matter.

And that is exactly the type of response I was waiting to see from you.. No matter what Bryan it seems that you always seem to have some sort of I am better attitude. You can say as you wish because I personally don't care but why then have the president go on the Riva board and post about you guys have this test lake, you are now doing rebuilt cranks for Yamaha and all this other crap rather than getting down to the subject at hand.. Why not take the crank back and inspect it.. What certifications do you have to diagnose a problem or say that the crank was not the cause of failure. Seems to me that you are a webmaster and not a trained qualified tech that can actually tear down motors and diagnose the cause of failure or actually build a motor and have it last. Is that what you are really saying? Seems to me that because it has something to do with Fercho that is what you are all about. Whether you take the crank back and see what really failed on it or not.. Oh and who was that Tech Guy that you guys made up or sent over to the Riva board to watch your back.. Sounded like one of your type of BS postes...

Yaa yaa yaa I know. You don't care and I don't have any qualifications to build, tear down or inspect a motor to determine the root cause.. But I can tell you that even the ones out there that are supposedly qualified have been doing a stand up job at still messing up motors and the assembly of them. Last time I checked this wasn't rocket science..

[Bryan Glynn]

Wow, I'm so moved by your opinion of me Who are you again?

I didn't 'have' the Owner come on and post anything. He saw this BS before I did - I was on vacation in AZ and really didn't care to deal with this kind of crap at the time but was forced to.

Tech Guy on the Riva board has nothing to do with me personally or SBT. Believe what you will.

My certifications to inspect failures comes from pure experience. From cores to warranty returns, especially this year since we warranty any type of failure - if it's breakable, I've seen it.

Nope, I'm not personally a certified tech, no I don't personally build our production engines - never claimed to, it's not my job. Our assemblers however, have more experience than you and Fernando put together, from one summer working here. We have guys that have hand built over 1,000 engines each and could do it in their sleep with exceptional preceision.

As for this being *about* Fernando, no it's not. It's about someone trying to do a public smear campaign by posting this crap over 7 public forums in an attempt to degrade our company image - something I defend vigorously.

[Bryan Glynn]

What is it with some people thinking they are special and deserve all kinds of special treatment? I JUST had a walk in warranty customer - bought a SD720, put an R&D head on it (voiding the warranty) and brought it back with some lower end damage, possibly brass gear/spring related. He KNEW the head voided the warranty, but didn't care, and was actually ANGRY with me when I told him I wouldn't cover the engine. his response was 'Yeah, but what does the head have to do with the rotary shaft?' I said nothing, but it voids the warranty and I can't cover it.

[Blaine]

SEE !!!! I told you back on page 2 ....
you need a
"I am special, This is my unreasonable request"
Section in this forum ! [img]graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

[Fercho]

Bryan we called twice and twice the claim was denied. So 2 days later we posted the information. We tried to followed the proper procedure but it did not work. We did not come here blasting your company, we posted what had happened to us and also to David Hernandez who had a similar issue after we have exhausted any other resources.

If you are having problem with ASUS they have a 2 year warranty on their boards. I have only used ASUSin my business for the past 7 years and had some replace at a ratio of about 3-4%. They will take care of your board. The biggest problem is that sometimes the board that you have may be obsolete so they have to send yours out to taiwan to get repair.

Intel has a 3 year warranty and their prices are comparable. Check them out.

[Fercho]

smithsil Bryan has had the same attitude with me on the Riva forum. He is arrogant and un professional. There are ways of dealing with claims and questions. Customer service professionalism and courtesy he doesnt know.