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3 Hour Old SBT crank bearing failure

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  • #46
    Hey Bryan- I installed an SBT motor last June, but our riding season only lasts through mid September. Can you extend the warranty on my motor through the next two riding seasons? [img]graemlins/oogle.gif[/img]
    Blaine, you were right on!!!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Fercho:
      Bryan we called twice and twice the claim was denied. So 2 days later we posted the information. We tried to followed the proper procedure but it did not work.
      No Fernando, you tried the proper procedure and felt you were special and the warranty didn't apply to you! SO THEN you tried your smear campaign. Posting this garbage all over the net doesn't get you a warranty - it just serves you in your attemt to degrade SBT.

      My ASUS board was fried (and the CPU and a stick of RAM) from a power supply that went out. Unlike you, I'm not even considering trying to get it warrantied unjustly. I ordered a new one, plain and simple.

      You can call me every name in the book, it won't help you. I suppose I would be a great guy and more professional if I gave you special treatment and broke the warranty contract for you eh? Yeah, thought so.

      Comment


      • #48
        I have to say this smear job all over the net almost is funny, I am not sure why you would want to make an a** out of yourself in more than one place. Yes sure I see the other 20 people bashing right with you, but rest assured there are 2000 people reading all your "I am special" remarks and wondering what is wrong with YOU. Chill out dude, SBT did everything they were suppose to, and you agreed to, when you bought that crank.

        I have to wonder if it were under warranty and it got replaced, If you would be going to all the post, The Ricki Lake Show, and every other place you can find to say what a GREAT company SBT was ? NO YOU WOULDN'T ... You know why ????????

        Because they did what they agreed to do , JUST LIKE THEY DID THIS TIME !
        Thanks for All the Help !<br />Blaine

        Comment


        • #49
          Bryan

          Another warranty example.....(besides the GPR bearing covered by corporate Yamaha)

          Riva also reimbursed me for the faulty GP1200 crank well beyond their normal warranty period due to the type of failure.

          I had purchased the GP1200 rebuilt trued/welded crank from Riva in the fall ( live in MN) and rebuilt the GP1200 engine over the winter with failure coming almost 6 months after purchase. They too told me it was beyond their written warranty however they did cover the cost of the crank and offered reduced prices (close to their cost) for the damaged parts that the crank caused. Believe me, at the time I was not a happy camper and would have gotten more satisfaction by sticking that crank somewhere other than in an engine even with the refund and reduced parts costs.

          Do you keep inventory records and can you determine which one of your employees re-built the crank, vendor shipment of bearings used and date of rebuild? Possibly the crank got assembled with some old bearing components that you currently have not purchased from your vendors and you may have superceded these old bearings with the procurement of revised updated bearings that do not contain the flaws/defects of your initial shipments?? If nothing else, you can document the quality of the finished product from your crank re-manufacture employee and quietly send him looking for a job without any knowing on the forums,, that is unless he is someone's uncle cousin or son,, then you've got to put up with his poor skills and lie to forum members to cover SBT's a$$ ..

          Through the analysis of the GPR engines that enter your facility with crank bearing failures, what have been the top 5 causes of these bearing failures? I ask this question since I would be interested in learing the top causes of single bearing failures on GPR cranks.

          Comment


          • #50
            Unfortunately I cannot disclose that type of failure information for R&D purposes. There are dozens of problems with OEM designs or specific manufacturing techniques we have improved or utilized, that we cannot make public - it would only help our competition.

            As for the crank assembler having something to do with that type of damage - it is highly unlikely. The cranks are pressed together by patented machines, and are hand trued. The only human variable in that bearing would be teh thrust washer tolerance, and that is checked by multiple people, not just the assembler. Yes we track inventory batches and engine assemblies, but not individual component work like cranks, rotary shafts, etc. - back to a specific person.

            Cudos to Riva for offering such an extended warranty. I would expect more people to now expect such extended service from them since that is now public information. What exactly was the failure of the crank?

            Comment


            • #51
              Does anyone agree with me that the bearing failure could have been caused by an air leak ?

              I have seen very similiar failures due to a bad seal, leaking base gasket, carb gasket and once or twice, a crack in the cases.

              Once overheated, that bearing was doomed to fail.

              How do I know from looking at those pictures that this rod saw any oil? Do I take someones' word that he didn't forget to pre-mix his gas?

              No pictures I have seen can replace a complete diagonosis of this type of engine failure.

              Anything else is pure speculation.....

              Last I heard, 90 days was still 90 days....

              7 different forums? I guess he got the word out.... I have seen it on the three I look at.

              WCM uses SBT cranks, and I have zero complaints. We will continue to buy them.

              Bill O'Neal
              WCM
              Bill O'Neal WCM
              <a href="http://www.watercraftmagic.com" target="_blank">www.watercraftmagic.com</a>

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Bryan Glynn:
                Unfortunately I cannot disclose that type of failure information for R&D purposes. There are dozens of problems with OEM designs or specific manufacturing techniques we have improved or utilized, that we cannot make public - it would only help our competition.

                As for the crank assembler having something to do with that type of damage - it is highly unlikely. The cranks are pressed together by patented machines, and are hand trued. The only human variable in that bearing would be teh thrust washer tolerance, and that is checked by multiple people, not just the assembler. Yes we track inventory batches and engine assemblies, but not individual component work like cranks, rotary shafts, etc. - back to a specific person.

                Cudos to Riva for offering such an extended warranty. I would expect more people to now expect such extended service from them since that is now public information. What exactly was the failure of the crank?
                The reason I ask about GPR crank bearing failures is that I currently have an engine that spit out the contents of one crank bearings and the engine had never been opened up at all prior to the bearing problem. I am reluctant on having my dealer replace the bad bearing with an oem Yamaha bearing, true and weld the crank, reassemble the engine only for the same thing to happen again because the cause of the initial problem was not fixed.

                The failure of the Riva GP1200 crank was the center connecting rod (aftermarket) breaking in half after less then 5 hours operation. I sent the crank, cylinders, head and pistons to them for analysis and they concluded that the rod was flawed. Possible during the forging/manufacturing process prior to crank buildup. They also were able to verify that the crank had very minimal operational time on it even though it had been purchased 6 months earlier and I certainly wasn't taking a chain saw to cut swaths in the ice to ride during the winter..heck even the rivers were froze up LOL...

                If you have any suggestions for my GPR issue, I'm all ears.

                In Ferchos situation, would it not be great customer service to analyze the damaged crank and various engine components to determine cause of failure. Think of the PR that could be gained if you were able to diagnose the cause of the problem and assist him in resolving his issue, other than the crank bearing, if thats the case. All the forums would know what caused the problem assuming it isn't a bearing issue and SBT would be held in high regard?? Conversely if it indeed was a bearing issue, quietly settle the issue contingent on the results not being publicized.

                [ December 03, 2002, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Mike K. ]

                Comment


                • #53
                  In general, a common failure I see with stock GPR engines coming in is overheat seizures, and occasionally lack of lube, but not to frequently.

                  A long time ago, we used WSM rods in a few engines for a run, and we had a run shear like that. We were able to pull or recover most from that batch but had a couple fail in the field. It turned out to be a flaw in the mold at the time. When you see a rod shear with a perfect line, without any twisting or obviousl fatuige - material failure is almost certainly the cause. Luckily it's a very rare thing to happen.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    To add response to your edit...IF we had indeed received a pattern of complaints, enough to surmize we had a material or batch problem, we would certainly offer such a solution.

                    But, we have no such problem or complaint record in this case. This is simply an out of warranty failure with no reason to suspect material failure any more so than an outside cause.

                    Offering an out of warranty solution in this case would only prove that our warranty is not worth the paper it's printed on, and everyone would be entitiled to whatever they feel is fair for thier time period of use or situation.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Bill It is possible that a lean seizure could have cause it, but we pressure tested the engine and used nothing but OEM gaskets. The fuel was premixed 32:1 ratio for the breaking process and we.

                      Taking in consideration that the crankcase was preassure tested and everything checked OK during the assembly and after disassembling the engine every component checked ok and after preassure testing the carbs and finding everything ok upon disassembly of the carbs (#2 in particular) and inspection we can only conclude on my end that the cause of the failure was the crankshaft bearing.

                      I only wish that we have the luck that you have had.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Pressure checking after assembly is important, but more important is to check after a failure, before you tear it town.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Welcome to the club. Sh_t happens as they say. I too had a recently rebuilt crank (not by sbt) eat a main bearing. I too was out of the warr period and I had to eat the failure. Yummy.

                          Did I do anything wrong? Nope. I must not have. The second crank is still going strong on exactly the same setup. Also, isn't it wierd that a bearing in the oil bath went? The motor only had 9 hours on it when I detected a wierd noise when turning the engine over by hand..

                          I'm totally convinced it was some sort of manufacturers defect.

                          I purchased the second crank from SBT and am quite happy with the quality too. I just wish they used OEM size wrist pin bearings (sea doo 800).

                          Next time buy the crank right before you plan to do your work. SBT has fast turnaround, even on their exchange parts. I suggest you use this to your advantage. I know I will.
                          -[\/]ac<br /> <a href="http://www.MACSBOOST.com" target="_blank"><B>www.MACSBOOST.com</B></a> Plug in 20+HP for your Honda Turbocharged Watercraft
                          <a href="http://www.TeamTweek.com" target="_blank"><B>www.TeamTweek.com</B></a> TeamTweek Watercraft Racing Forums

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Look
                            I know guys in the auto industry. and they told me stories.
                            heres one
                            a guy bought a car with a 3 year 36k warranty. After 3 years he got 23000 miles on the car. brought it in for service and was apalled that it wasnt covered. they told him its 3 years or 36 000 miles WHICHEVER comes first and he knew that. Its inconsequential wether he had 3 hours on the crank or 300 hours on the crank. the waranty was for 90 days. I wish SBT would cover the crank but as a business man I can see why they wont.
                            Think of it this way. Most everyone responding to the post is emotionally involved. Fercho is a frined to some of the guys they ride together and he seems liek a guy who knows what he is doing, but put yourself in SBTs shoes and you wont warranty a crank either. Im willing to bet you. Nobody wants to give away 450$ for a item thats out of warranty. Like I said I feel bad that Fercho and SBT cant come to a understanding but since the warranty stated a certain time limit that should of been taken in consideration.
                            lets say you buy a part from someone. you install it on your ski and 3 hours later it fails causing damage to your ski. Do you go back to the seller and demand another part? Nope you dont cause you cant. Same with a used car. it sucks And I dotn think SBT will back down from their stand now especially with all the posts.

                            Rob

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              i am in the auto industry,i've been a tech for 18 years.i've worked for chrysler and gm.they both have what they call a goodwill warranty to the customer.they do cover things out of the standard warranty, you can't be a long ways out of warranty but it's up to the dealer to decide for the most part. i see a lot of things covered out of warranty.sbt can handle it any way they wish,but if it were me i would get the parts back and try to determine what went wrong,and if i wasn't positive it was the user's fault ,i would take care of the $450 just in the interest of customer satisfaction. this should have been handled in private,but it's not too late to get something resolved.

                              my .02
                              todd

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                SBT by policy is no longer discussing private warranty matters in public.

                                Please call in or email for your warranty needs.

                                Thank You
                                SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
                                We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
                                Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

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