'92 GTX Won't Start

[Bill O'Neal]

The 92 models have a combination CDI/Coil, an all-in-one coil-ignition. Try changing it for a known good cdi-coil. The last three digits of the part number are 202. They used this cdi/coil in many models back then.

[kccoax]

Dude! I feel your agony! I spent hours not long ago check'n and ohm'n out every single electrical component on a 95 SP. Checking your magneto coils is fairly simple. Disconnect the wiring harness plug which is attached to the bracket for your spark plug wire grounding stakes. The charge coil is the yellow/yellow-black wires and should ohm out around .05 to .o6 ohms. The generating coil is the red/red-black and should ring out around 40 to 70 ohms. I don't think that's your problem though! In addition to the ignition coil, the '92 has an ignition relay on a 20 second delay which plugs into the MPEM. There is an identical charge system relay next to it, when you get a good battery again, try swapping the relays. Of course they both could be bad!

[Skyhawk76E]

I have swapped-out the battery with a known good one from my '97 SPX...no luck.

KCCoax could be right about the relays since I was fiddling with the wiring harness around the gas tank when it last worked. (None of my fuel/tach gauges have ever worked.) I noticed on the diagram that the relays seem to get power from the Red/Purple wire that runs up that way.

The BK & BK/Red ignition coil wires do show around 70ohms (within spec), but that is going through the generating coil of the magneto.

I am highly suspect of the ignition coil, right now. Although I have the manual and kccoax's resistance numbers, I'm not realy clear on where to do the checks and under what circumstances (wires unplugged, etc).

WHAT ABOUT THIS?
When I put an ohm meter on the ignition coil where the BK/RD wire connects (with it removed) and the ignition coil ground, I don't show any reading until I've got my ohm meter on the Rx2000K setting. Then it reads 1092. That seems like a LOT of resistance for that coil.

TO REVIEW THE FACTS:
- I have confirmed by pulling the plug that there is NO spark.

- I have removed the rev-limiter wire from the circuit (BK/YL) and still no spark. To review how I did this, there are 3 wires that come together (BK/YL from rev-limiter, BK/YL from tether cord switch, BK/WH from starter switch). I had to clip the tether-cord wire to the starter switch wire to complete the circuit for the engine to turn-over, but with the BK/YL from the rev-limiter left-out.

This is frustrating...especially since nobody locally carries ANY of these parts.

Does any of this shed any light on the situation?

[Skyhawk76E]

Kccoax and the Ingles diagram I referenced online show the relays as external to the black electronics module. My electronics module does not have external relays. It looks like it has a part number of 278-000-070. It also has a date on it of August 1995 (this is a 1992 ski).

Is that module model OK?

[Skyhawk76E]

I GOT A SPARK!!!

I removed the black and red wire from the Electronics Module to the spark coil and GOT A SPARK! It didn't start, but at least I was seeing sparks.

So what would tell the Electronics Module to ground the pulse coming from the magneto?

[kccoax]

You are almost there! That 70 ohm reading IS through the generating coil so it should be fine. If you disconnected the red/black wire going from the ignition coil to the electronic module and got a spark at your plugs, then your ignition coil is probably fine. I'd ohm it out anyway---disconnect the red/black and black wires to the ignition coil again so you don't read through the magneto. You have to read through the plug wires with the plug wire caps removed or the resistance will be too high! With the ohmeter leads on the exposed plug wires you should read around 10 to 15 thousand ohms.
Sounds to me like the Electronic Module is shorting to ground. Have you figured out what module you have in there? I'm working on two 95's right now..an SP and a GTS, that number doesn't match my two.

[Skyhawk76E]

Resistance in the spark wires and caps checked-out fine. I removed a portion of the wires on each end to get a good clean connection.

Still no start and no spark with the EM hooked-up, with spark without it...

[1fastski.com]

the black and red is the rev limiter . i did find a good 93 sp box . just need to see if they swap out ok .

[kccoax]

I was looking for some parts online and figured I'd take a sec to look at some various modules....that module you have is from the '94 models!! The wiring is almost identical. Should be a purple wire from the overheat buzzer and a red/purple from your gauges that share a common power connection to the module. Since you probably need a new one anyway, I'd sure get the right one (278 000 200). Before you drop 300 bucks on the right module, I would try disconnecting that "red/purple" wire to your gages in case the short is up there!? Just a thought-- since you don't have that additional ignition relay on a time delay(that the '92 module has) could this have caused a "spike" or a "short" somewhere? If you can rule out a short to your gauges, get the proper module and get that thing on the water!!!! KC

[Skyhawk76E]

I appreciate you doing that!

I think it may be worse...like a '95. In addition to that being the date on it, the '93 and '94 had 2 - 15Amp fuses. Mine has a 5A and a 15A which begin in 1995!

Any idea what model (GTX, SPX, etc)?

I'm familiar with the purple wire you're talking about, I'll look into how that might be affecting it.

Thanks, again!!!

[Skyhawk76E]

Upon further examination though, the wire colors and fuses match that of the '92 GTX and nothing newer. It does not have external relays, though. Wierd...

LEFT RELAY (stuck closed)
The Red wire going to the rectifier has 12v on it even when the engine is not turning over. When I pulled the 15A fuse, the voltage goes away. Based on the diagram, this suggests that the left relay is stuck closed allowing 12v from the battery on the solenoid post to enter the MPEM through the 2nd red wire on the MPEM. It then crosses the stuck relay and exits the 1st red wire going to the rectifier.

RIGHT RELAY (won't close)
The MPEM Yellow/Red wire shoes 12v to ground when the engine is not turning over. This is normal since it joins the Red/White wire from the battery (at solenoid) inside the MPEM. When the relay closes, it should allow this 12v to flow across the relay to the Red/Purple wire out of the MPEM and to the "speed limiter and electronic control for relays".

The Red/Purple wire shows no voltage on it when trying to start. This suggests the right relay is not closing.

Does this make sense and does it shed any light on the situation?

The Red/Purple wire does not indicate any voltage on it when trying to start.

[ May 22, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Skyhawk76E ]

[Skyhawk76E]

Thanks 1FastSki! I've got the wiring diagrams for both the '92 GTX and '93 SP side by side here...

Given my situation the differences seem minor, but you guys are the experts. Here's what I found.

Both Have:
- Red to rectifier
- Black/Red to ignition coil and generating coil (magneto)
- Rd/Purple to Thermo Switch (the '92 GTX hooks in here to power gauges).
- Black/Yellow to starter switch and safety switch
- Black to ground (duh)
- Black white to negative side of solenoid (lower left)
- Yellow/Red to positive side of solenoid (lower right)

THE VISIBLE DIFFERENCES ARE:
- The '93 SP, SPI and GTS apparently don't use relays, so the Red/White wire from the solenoid is missing.

- The '93 SP, SPI and GTS uses 2 15A fuses instead of a 5A and 15A. That means it could put 15A into the thermo switch and the speed limiter (that was designed for it).

- The '93 SP, SPI and GTS didn't have the gauges the '92 GTX does, so there's no junction to Red/Purple that runs to the bow for the gauges. I've never seen the gauges work, so if that's missing it's no big deal.

All in all it sounds like a good fit to me, but again...I'm a novice. What do you think?

[kccoax]

I'm no expert by any means. I have over 10 years of electrical and mechanical experience from being in the elevator trade, but I'm new to working on PWC's. I'm going through two 95's for my brother and have been studying a Clymer shop manual for the last two months. Unless my manual is wrong, 93 and on all have one 5amp and one 15 amp fuse on the module. An online OEM parts finder referenced your module's part# to several 94 models only(including the GTX). But I don't know how accurate that is. I'll step aside and lay low...maybe one of the Techs here will have some better advice for you. KC

[Skyhawk76E]

Well, kccoax is right about the year/model of the module. It's from a '94 GTX, etc.

Should it start when I disconnect the BK/RD wire? I get a spark then, but it won't start. (I'm still running oil rich break-in oil).

Is it certain enough that this thing is bad that I need to order a new one? I've tried everything to get it to start...

[1fastski.com]

they did away with the relays cuz they never worked right :) if you want i will send you the 93 box you can try it out .