1997 spx new motor no spark

[seasoned]

We finished installing the new motor yesterday. Engine cranks and really wants to run without spark plug caps on. The minute we put the spark plug caps on - nothing except a chunk sound (like the battery is really low). Battery is not - freshly fully charged off the charger. Took the spark plug caps off, pulled the plugs, not getting any spark on both of the spark plugs. No burning smell, no smoke.. just no power. Cleaned cables, double-checked, all are tight and connected. Although I'm not sure I trust my "grounding wire" which comes out of that box and connects additionally onto the negative connection on the battery. I had to redo that connection last season, and now it's bent up again..although it doesn't seem loose.

Here is what may be the mitigating factors:

When we pulled the engine apart to replace it, we found little springs stuck to the linside of the ittle hub inside the flywheel case. Not sure what those were or where they went. (Probably my problem - and has been bugging me)

On the case which encloses the flywheel, the connector that the electrical connection plugs into from the outside would push back inside the case (in fact it was pushed inside the case when we removed it). Nothing was broke and it was a pain to replace it (bought the new parts), so instead we left the old one and siliconed it in, not getting anything on any of the components around that area.. just enough to hold it in place.

Also inside that area, we sanded and cleaned the metal plates on the stator since they had oil on them. Don't think that would have ruined anything.

Before installing engine, we cleaned out the hull really good. Spark plug wires may have gotten wet, other connections may have gotten wet, but all the important boxes were sealed. We are now letting the wires dry out all day today in the sun just in case.

The flywheel was pretty chewed from the old starter. Replaced both. Replaced flywheel with a good used one - good teeth. Replaced starter with a Goki. Cleaned everything up really good. - Only thing was, we painted the flywheel... (hope that wouldn't do anything - since I did think it might at the time). Also new are the rotary valve, the rotary valve cover.

Also, before we replaced the engine, it had spark and was running fine before the ring on the piston broke and had to be shipped for warranty replacement.

I read something about fuses.. but if it were a fuse, would the engine be cranking over w/out the spark plug wires on? Any ideas on where to start with this one would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill O'Neal]

From your descriptions of the work and problems, I'd first make sure the coil box had no water in it and that the small black ground wire that connects to the negative battery post was in perfect condition. If that is not the problem, I'd remove the front mag cover and go through everything related to the stator, pickup and connector. The plug that you siliconed into place is a 6 pin connector. It is not uncommon to find one or two pins that are pushed back into the connector half that is mounted to the mag cover. In fact, using a mirror and a flashlight, you can look closely at the 6 pins to see if all are protruding out the exact same distance. Do this before you disassemble the front cover. If they are pushed in, you may be able to use small needle nosed pliers to pull them out to where they should be.

The springs that you found in the stator were from the front seal of the cases. They usually do not do alot of damage, but they can short out the trigger, or cause a misfiring motor.

Wet sparkplug wires shouldn't cause you a problem. They get wet all the time when riding with any water in the hull.

There are fuses on the MPEM inside the grey ignition box. Make sure they are in good condition.

When you replaced the flywheel, did you align the hump on the magneto cup with the hole in the flywheel?

[seasoned]

I assume by the "hump" you are referring to the magnet on that little hub...? If so, then yes.

[seasoned]

I believe the coil box is the black one in the back near the battery? If so, then no it didn't have any water anywhere in it.. sealed tight.

Based on what you have said, I guess I'll check the fuses and I was going to redo that wire anyway.

If none of these are the problem, what could it possibly be? The troubleshooting in the manual says to replace the MPEM.

By the time I'm finished my ski is going to be brand new part for part. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img] [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

[Bill O'Neal]

Yes, the hump I was referring to is the one on the outer diameter of the magneto cup that bolts onto the flywheel (starter ring in SD lingo). And, the coil box is the one next to the battery. That little black wire is famos for corroding inside of the plastic sheath and not making contact. It grounds the coil. Without a ground, there will be no spark at the sparkplugs.
Well there always is the possibility of a bad MPEM, but rarely does the MPEM go bad while swapping out a motor, unless of course, there was an MPEM problem before you started this project.

I usually look at the last thing someone "fixed" as to where the new problems orginate. I usually find something amiss.

[Colin GSXL]

Reading the original post I assume that when you say it cranks without the plug caps on that the plugs ARE fitted. If that is the case, could it be a timing issue with the spark slightly too early i.e firing a few extra degrees before TDC and so stopping the pistons on their up stroke when the leads are reconnected?

I am not familiar with the setup on the ignition pick up, etc so this is only food for thought for the experts to comment on.

I know you say there's no spark but sometimes a weak spark can be missed in bright light.

Colin

[Bill O'Neal]

Yeah, I had my doubts about that part too. If Seasoned could eloborate a bit about the plug caps off part, I might have another theory if he wrote it meaning something else, like the sparkplugs were out and it cranks, but with them in, it won't crank over.

[seasoned]

Ok.. today I spent another $220 to no avail.

Here is what I mean. I pull the spark plug caps off the spark plugs, and it cranks over and wants to run with no problem.. turns over.. no power problems. The minute I place the spark plug caps back on... it's as if the battery is dead.. and it kills the battery.

I myself thought back to when I had seen this problem on my other ski so I replaced the post for the dess, the actualy dess key today, the battery (with a brand new and charged battery - I charged it for 2 hours - dry cell).

Here is what it does.. with the newly charged fresh battery it started after a few kachunks and ran. Turned it off.. then once again... kachunk kachunk.. then it started. Waited ten minutes.. even harder to start.. kachunked about 8 times then started.

Dumped it into the water, drove it ... shut it off, tried restaring it.. kachunked twice started up. Ran it for another 5 minutes turned it off... kachunked and wouldn't start. Let it sit for about ten minutes in the water, it kachunked twice and started. Once it started, it runs great. Jetski mechanic I bought the new battery from said it seemed like it really had really high compression and might be getting vapor lock??? Whatever that means. So then I thought selanoid.. but jumped it and it still did the kachunk thing.

Also.. the starter whether I turn it over once, twice, three times.. its' getting really hot. Could I have gotten a lemon Goki?

[seasoned]

Oh.. and with the spark plugs in it did not turn over. With spark plugs off cranks over fine.

[Colin GSXL]

Still a little confused here.....

Here is what I mean. I pull the spark plug caps off the spark plugs, and it cranks over and wants to run with no problem..

Oh.. and with the spark plugs in it did not turn over. With spark plugs off cranks over fine.

Are you saying that it cranks fine with the plugs IN and the leads off (grounded) but it will not crank after you fit the plug leads to the spark plugs that are already in the motor???

It's not very clear in your postings as they seem to contradict each other.

[ March 16, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: colin95xp ]

[seasoned]

With the spark plugs themselves off and the spark plug wires grounded, it turns over fine. The minute I put the caps and the spark plugs back on, it will not crank. With the spark plugs in, and the spark plug caps grounded, it cranks just fine. With everything connected the way it is supposed to be, it will occasionally crank over and runs just fine... so I'm assuming it's not a timing problem, because it would be back firing and refusing to run. It seems to start when the engine is completely cold. Now.. when I let it run, shut it off, and try to start it again, kachunk hachunk, and the battery is drained. I have checked to verify that the battery is charging while on.. .so it does not appear to be the charging system.

Now.. I have since checked the fuses in the gray electrical box, they are fine. I rewired both ground wires, Sanded all connections down. Retightened, double checked, applied di-electric grease, recleaned all connections with contact cleaner, snipped back the spark plugs wires and reinstalled. All this including what I have previously done.

At this point, I'm thinking about replacing the coil, and having the starter swapped out even though it is new just in case.

So I guess maybe the coil?

[seasoned]

Here is an even better one for you. Got it started today (because after playing with it and kachunking a whole bunch it does run). Took it out without shutting it off since it does run great while it's running.

Now, at this point I think the engine might be posessed. This engine is a warranty replacement engine from SBT. It is currently not under warranty because the warranty ran out in Feb. However, I didn't get a chance to get it back into the hull till now.

Now.. after bringing it back onto the dock today. We allowed it to kachunk a few times, then got it started and were flushing it out... the rpms suddenly picked up (no one was anywhere near the throttle) and kept going up and up and up and wouldn't stop. We pulled the plug caps off the plugs... and the jetski kept running at the same really high rpms. So I then turned the gas off and it eventually killed. Problem being, it's still during the "break in period" , as it is still within the first tank of gas with the 32-1 mixture.

What the heck is going on????? AHAHAHAHAHAH. Do I need get priest to come and have it exorcised?

[Technical Support]

That is either an air leak (case or intake), or the carbs are running lean, like a clog or mis-adjusted needle, or your fuel system is clogged or turned off. You glowplugged. No it's not great for break-in, but not totally fatal because you weren't under load.

[seasoned]

Ok. I don't think it's running lean, because the spark plugs are the proper color.

The dealership I used to take it to had me install a primer kit because it was hard to start. So I did.. and when I did I was told by one of the techs on the sly that he has seen the primer kit cause the ski do what it did yesterday, and warned me that if it ever happened to turn the gas off (that's why I reacted how I did), and pull the wires off the plugs.

Possibly the primer kit isn't attached to the carbs snugly causing an air leak?

When we installed the new engine we cleaned everything out with choke cleaner and checked everything over. They had been rebuilt less than a year ago and we didnt' remove any of the hoses from the carbs at all. However, I will have to double-check all the fittings and hoses on the carbs.

I might even be better off re-installing the choke and choke plates back on the ski - just so I don't have this problem in the future.

[Technical Support]

The presense of a primer as opposed to a choke plate doesn't cause that problem. Yes it's very possible that you have a leak somewhere, probably at the primer fitting.

Turning the gas off however, is the WORST thing you could have done. The runaway can only be stopped by introducing more fuel to richen the burn and stop the process. The best thing to do is pull the lanyard, open the throttle all the way and pump the primer a couple times - it stops immidiately.