Boggin prob....maybe.....

[John Kubiak]

Twin 700 said:

also I hope I am tightening the plugs onto the top end properly.. I put after the plugs are snuged... I used to turn it about 5-15lbs of torque... not much,... but engough to know that I wont strip the threads in the block itself where the plugs go.

Please Please go to this site http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinf...s/techtips.asp
Read through the tech info.

I have observed much more damage to spark plug threads caused by folks who are "afraid of stripping the threads" than by people who use "gorilla-like strength" to tighten them.

Think about this; If the plug is not tight enough, it can move up and down in the threads in the cylinder head, as this occurs, the spark plug will act like a file and very quickly cut through the aluminum threads in the cylinder head, causing exactly the problem that you are afraid of creating.

Your engine's proper performance depends on the plugs being tightened properly; in your case, 18 ft-lbs of torque which will properly seal the plug gasket, and secure the threads together. This will ensure the correct heat dissipation properties of the plug.

The firing ends seem to look well within the acceptable range for a good running engine, and I am willing to say that the color will improve some more, once you torque the spark plugs properly.

[ April 15, 2002, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: John Kubiak ]

[Twin700]

John Kubiak
Thanks a bunch. I will torque the spark plugs tighter and will let you all know if this is the cure.
Once again,,
Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img] :D

[SeaLion]

I would start with the correct plugs for your ski. They are BPR8ES and not BP8ES like you are using.

[SeaLion]

I only looked at Angel1 and although fuzzy, it looks like BR8ES on there. Now looking at the other pictures, I am confused at what plug you have because some you can see the BP and some the R. Look at your plugs and post what they are. It should be a BPR8ES.

[Twin700]

Originally posted by SeaLion:
I would start with the correct plugs for your ski. They are BPR8ES and not BP8ES like you are using.

Well I used both plugs and they seem to run the same.. maybe the BR8ES runs more responsive on take off and top end speeds. Felt like the torque/thrust was always there which the BPR8ES felt a little lug'ish and top end felt flat and no thrust at all.

But I called NGK and the "P" in the plug stood for Projected. He said there is no biggie diff,,, except prolly the main reason why polaris suggest the BPR8ES plugs is due to less fouling. But also the rep at NGK says to make sure the torque on each plug on the block is abut 18LBs of toque... which.. I think I was a little shy of. But Rep also asked me how did the spark plugs look like and told him... and he way saying I am probably running a little rich,,, to where the plugs are fouling out to which when I kill the ski to rest,,, the residue / oil on the plugs are bogged with oil and when I start it.. it wont take off,, b/c there too much oil on the plugs to where it needs to burn off the old oil off to get it back running properly.

But I will take the next step and go with correct specs on the torque on the plugs and see what happens.. if it dont go away (the boggin) then I will take the next step and rejet the carbs and prolly run little leaner.

thanks all

[Twin700]

Originally posted by John Kubiak:
The one thing that really concerns me is that the threads of the plugs seem to indicate a combustion pressure leak (the black sooty deposits on the threads), and in pictures 6, 7, 8, and 9 the crush gasket does not seem to be as crushed as it should be if the plugs were properly torqued in the head.

If the plugs are not properly torqued into the head, the plug will not transfer heat properly, and you will end up with false readings.

Also a photo or two from the firing end of the plug may be more helpful.

John Kubiak ,

Ok,, I did what you asked and I posted pics of the plugs at top angles. I do want to let you know that I did already start the ski after it was pulled out of the lake to belge all the water out of the prop and motor itself.. so I dunno if these pics are helpfull still.
But if you go to my site and look at the pics named: angel1 -to- angel4 ... you can see the pictures and let me know what you think??

also I hope I am tightening the plugs onto the top end properly.. I put after the plugs are snuged... I used to turn it about 5-15lbs of torque... not much,... but engough to know that I wont strip the threads in the block itself where the plugs go.

thanks..

here are the new pics:
http://photos.yahoo.com/psx2_madness

------
CJ,

I think due to the gas me and you are talking about is from the flame arrestor not being tight... I think when I took them off yesterday... I did not re-torque the bolts the tighten the air filters on that tight,,, and maybe that is what caused the little leakage on the bracket below that sits on the carbs abouve the reeds (itself).

[SeaLion]

I also noticed that you have OP F/A's on there. I don't think you will need to go leaner. Maybe richer. The other think to look at is the accelerator pumps on your carbs. Maybe one is malfunctioning and causing the other to add too much fuel?

[UnoWho]

Just for information purposes, this is NGK's web page that tells what all the letters and numbers mean in their part numbers. I found this page to prove to my buddy what the letter "p" meant. He swore up and down for half an hour that the "p" in BPR8ES meant platinum. I told him that there is now ay you are going to buy a platinum plug for $1.80 [img]smile.gif[/img] http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinf...aq/faqcode.asp

[SeaLion]

It's a projection tip. Polaris has been using these plugs since day one. I think, although not positive that some of the newer models don't all require the "P".

[tomsl750]

It turned out that mine were running lean. I had the same similar problem that you described. If I were you, I'd richen them up and see if that helps. I never start out by leaning them up because that can cause problems. (Unless I know for a fact that it is rich). The only problems with it running rich is poor performance and fouled plugs/excessive smoke etc. Now if you run it lean you can casue severe damage as I'm sure you have read about around here. Good luck. Also, the black sooty appearance could be from you idling the boat in to the trailer and not buring the fuel all the way? Also, use the same plug and use the P version. The fact that it runs different is just circumstancial. The tip of the plug will sit in where it needs to onthe P version where as the non P version will be up in the head threads. As far as the plugs, if you don't have a torque wrench (I advise one) a lot of old timers go "snug" and then 1/4 turn. While this is not completely accurate, it will work while in the field. What other mods have you done to your ski? Are the F/A all? That will also help with diagnosis.

[Twin700]

Thanks... I will follow up ASAP. I am needing to put on Emergency Break pads on my SUV.. once thats done.. I will be hittin the lake 1st thing.. and will post back with updates [img]smile.gif[/img] :D
Thanks

Oh... BTW.... Is there a special flat tip screwdrive that can bend that I can use or get So I can get to the 2nd screw on the 2nd carb to do the adjustments w/o totally removeing the carbs to do the adjustments on the mixture screw??

I went to sears... and asked about those kinda special screw drivers that bend,, and they taught I was crazy

[John Kubiak]

"Snug" plus a 1/4 turn, leaves a lot of room for loose plugs. If you check the box that the plug comes in, NGK recommends finger tight until the gasket touches the head, and then 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn from there. It ususally results in 18 to 20 ft-lbs of torque, fairly consistently with new plugs. As used plugs' crush washer gaskets have been crushed before they will require slightly more torque.

As for the screwdriver, try this link, and scroll down towards the bottom the item number is 08-119 http://www.motionpro.com/servicetools_2.html

[ April 16, 2002, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: John Kubiak ]

[tomsl750]

That's why I recommended the torque wrench if at all possible. A torque wrench is almost necessary in this sport. I retorque my head every few weeks and at the beginning of the season I try to retorque all of the nuts I can reach with it. I normally find a few that needed to be retorqued. And your right, I should have put down 1/2 to 3/4 turn. I was in a rush out the door and missed keyed. Hope everything goes well for you there, twin 700.

[ April 16, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: tomsl750 ]

[Twin700]

Ok... great thanks Tom.

I think the 1st thing is 1st.. and I will run the BpR8ES plugs and make sure there 18lbs of torque per plug. then if it boggs still.. then I will suggest to run RICHER on the carbs.

So if I remember right... to run richer is to turn the screw "CLOCKWISE" right??

thanks

[Bryan Glynn]

NO - richer is counter clockwise - you are backing out the screw, letting more fuel pass by the tip.