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  • Pulling pistons / breaking down engine

    I'm needing to know how to go about pulling pistons. I'm having to break down my motor now in my SLTX (if Tech support will let me post the pics I'll show everyone what happens when a mechanic absolutely screws you... [img]/graemlins/angryfire.gif[/img] ). Anyways, I've got the cylinders off and everything else. All that is left is the crank, crankcase, and pistons. I need to know the most effective way to remove the pistons (and any special tools if I need them) to get them off. This really, really sucks but I appreciate any help I can get in trying to make this right...

    Thanks a bunch. This is my first full engine break down so I'm learning.

    All these photos are of what I was told was an absolutely brand new engine. From the moment I got it back it didn't run right. I ran it for maybe 2 hours after getting it back. It smoked terrible and struggled to get on plane. I checked the plugs and the rear didn't look like it was firing. I checked compression, 125 front, 120 middle, 0 rear. I started pulling apart and what's below is waht i found. Again remember all these photos are of a "new" engine that only saw fresh water for a few hours...
    Shots of the rear (#3) cylinder)



    Domes installed incorrectly (the exhaust port is up in this photo and the dome is not right as you can see).


    Fried Piston (#3)
    Exhaust side

    Intake side


    "New" domes (look at all the corrossion)


    Domes: (far left is #3, middle #2, right #1)
    There was no damage to the cylinder or piston in number 2 but look at the dome


    [ June 02, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Sirhc7897 ]
    00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

  • #2
    Remove the circlips, the use a socket extension and tap the wrist pins out. Email me the pics.
    SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
    We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
    Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

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    • #3
      I assume the circlips are the round rings recessed inside the piston on either side that (in the circle) hold the wrist pin in place? The wrist pin is the cylinder inside that attaches the piston and the connecting rod correct? If I am correct what is the easiest way to remove the circlips? Thanks.

      I will email the pics sometime this afternoon.

      Close up of #2 dome


      All 3 pistons (keep in mind this is a supposedly totally new engine).


      This is the best. He told me the pump extension on my SLTX was worn and needed to be replaced. A few months earlier I had a prop come loose in my SLX and eat up the pump extension just like this. Same mechanic replaced it on my SLX (I didn't have time to fix it). Care to guess where this "new" pump extension on my SLTX came from? I f you guessed the old one off my SLX you would have won the grand prize?


      [ June 02, 2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Sirhc7897 ]
      00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

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      • #4
        Correct - and circlip pliers.

        [ June 02, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Technical Support ]
        SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
        We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
        Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

        Comment


        • #5
          Got the pics up. Thanks for posting them. I'm not really sure what my options are at this point. I know he screwed me over and I know I'm out quite a bit of money but don't know if this is enough to prove it or even if it's worth pursuing?...Anybody had any experience with something like this?

          [ June 02, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Sirhc7897 ]
          00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

          Comment


          • #6
            I would say it's time for court.
            SBT Tech Support is here to help with your problems.
            We try to answer each question quickly and accurately.
            Please do not use Private Messaging for Tech Support, use the forums.

            Comment


            • #7
              To make a long story short:

              Parents borrowed it for their vacation last summer and it blew on them (after 350 hours, so I wasn't terribly upset). They felt guilty and offered to have it fixed. I said OK and they took it to this guy. He just got done with it a couple weeks ago (had it for like 6 months). It was put in the water to start the break-in on the "brand new" motor and it only made it a few hours (2).

              I took it on good faith that the guy did it right but it never ran right from the moment it went in the water. I assumed it was the extra break-in oil but now I suspect it came back to me with most of this damage allready in place. I suspect (but can't prove) that the #3 piston was allready like this too.

              I've left it up to my parents (as it is their money on this particular ski) but I don't think they are going to do anything more than take it as a learning experience. I however am not quite done with the guy. His business lives off of word of mouth and as my dad likes to say "It's on the wheel"

              - this guys crooked ways will come back around to him...
              00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

              Comment


              • #8
                I need your SLTX just the way it is. I have an SLXH that I have a spare motor for. "HOT TO GO" motor with ported cylinders, flat top pistons, modified carbs, head etc. I need to rebuild my SLXH but the motor currently in it is stronger than the Hot To Go motor. I might want to part with it. Is there anything SBT can do to fix it?? might be your best affordable option. Unless they got a look at your pics. LOL
                JOE FORD9ERS@AOL.COM

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                • #9
                  Man, I'm super sorry to hear about the bum luck.

                  Feel free to e-mail me, I'll drop you my phone # if you need any more assistance than what you have already.

                  Piston removal:

                  You can use a heat gun [like a paint stripper] to heat the piston up [not the pins [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img] ] after you have 1 circlip off the outside edge of the piston. Heat it up to around 120-130 degrees or so. You'll need decent gloves [like a pair of cheap work gloves / welding gloves]. Use a block of wood held below the piston pin hole on the side of the removed circlip. [I have a friend hold the wood & piston to keep them steady] Use am extended socket slightly smaller than the circlip diameter and a mallet to tap the pin out of the heated piston. When heated up, it should slide out rather easily. Once it is partially out of the piston you can pull it out the other side with your hands (gloves still) or a pair of channel lock plyers.

                  You should wind up with the needle bearing from the wrist pin, wrist pin, piston (with 1 circlip still installed), and a circlip.

                  [don't reuse circlips] needle bearing can be reused if there is no damage or scratching. If in doubt, replace... it is much cheaper in the long run. If you want to reuse, clean it up good and rinse it well, then lube with 2 stroke oil.

                  Installing new pistons:

                  You install the one circlip in advance. There is am indentation by the circlip land in the piston that can be used with a small screwdriver or awl and will provide the leverage needed to flex the circlip into place. Don't bend the circlip by flexing too much. Get one part seated with the opening about at 7 o'clock or so. Hold the partially inserted circlip in place [I use my thumb / glove] while flexing the clip the rest of the way around until it pops in.

                  Install the needle bearing in the rod.

                  Place the wrist pin in the freezer until a bit cold [I usually wrap it in a towel to keep moisture off]

                  Heat new piston up with gun or in oil bath [I use an old deep-fryer with an adjustable thermostat and a candy thermometer on the side, filled with oil]

                  Line up piston with rod & bearing... then the pin should slide right in by hand. Don't hesitate with it since you don't want the pin to warm up too much before it is in, don't jam the bearing if it is a bit cock-eyed, just rock the piston a bit and it'll slide in if stuck a bit, you may have to back the pin out and in a mm or two while rocking. Make sure the pin is all the way in the other side and you can see the circlip fitting area clearly all the way around.

                  Install the second circlip the same as the first.

                  When installing the jugs, 1: install the piston ring into the jug first. Use a feeler gauge to verify the space between the ends. Make sure this is in spec. if it is too small, and you are sure your jug's bore size is correct... you can file the ring ends to the proper size. If the gap is too large the rings won't work and you need to verify your bore size again. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

                  I usually round the outer edges of the rings by the end gap with 600 grit sand paper. I like avoiding hard edges where the rings meet.

                  After that is done, install the rings. Be careful not to score the edges of the piston with the rings and also not to bend the rings on installation. It is common for people to install a single end and then wrap the rest of the ring around the piston until it goes in. That can often bend the end of the ring just enough that it will lock up in the ring land. So, best choice is to use a set of ring installation plyers or I use my hands (one finger on each ring end and one thumb on the back of the ring at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clockto prevent bowing. They should be opened just enough to clear the piston and no more.. slide and install. The ring ends will straddle the index pin in the ring lands on the piston. This pin is on either side of the exhaust port, depending on which ring it is.

                  Once the rings are on the piston, I use really wide zip-ties to compress the rings down until they are even with the piston body. slightly rocking the ziptie back and forth with let you feel the ring freely moving in the ring land and should bump the index pin and stop each direction. If it does not move back and forth easily, remove the zip tie and make sure the ring is not stuck in the groove / bent.

                  Assuming everything is in place and free to move, you do the same with the other ring.

                  Coat the jug's inner bore with two stroke oil.
                  Install appropriate gaskets and sealing compounds for the cyl base.

                  Holding the piston in place and steady, ( I usually do it with the crank at bottom dead center for the piston I'm installing) line the jug up with the top of the piston. With one small strike of the palm it should push the zip ties off the rings and down the pistons while the jug slides over top. If it hangs on a ring, remove and try again.

                  Once the zip ties are pushed down by the wrist pin area, I cut them free. Be careful to not let anything drop inside the engine, such as zip tie parts. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

                  Install the jug the rest of the way and finger tighten bolts / nuts.

                  Repeat for other jugs.

                  Install exhaust manifold / bolts w/o gasket and finger tighten until jug is pulled flush with manifold surface.

                  Now secure jug nuts down.

                  Remove exhaust manifold and torque jugs to specs.

                  ok, I'm tired of typing. LOL

                  Peace,
                  -Steven Fisher

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks a ton. That pretty much took care of every question I was developing in my head. [img]smile.gif[/img]
                    00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not a problem. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

                      couple of other quick thoughts...

                      1: when doing the torquing of the jugs at the end.... I usually remove a nut at a time after torquing, install lock-tite and re-install / torque the nut until they are all done... 1 at a time.

                      This provides lock-tite (my brother says I should be sponsored by them at the rate I use the stuff) and also provides an even torque across the nuts/bolts.

                      2: to remove the circlip [earlier models used a retaining c-clip and uses plyers to hit the holes, squeeze and remove] you should be able to use a small flat head screw driver and an awl. Twist the screw driver in the indentation in the piston circlip area to spring the clip out of the seat area and use the awl to wedge it out the rest of the way. Careful, it will launch out! I usually keep my gloved hand over the area and have the engine toweled off around the area to prevent launching it into unknown areas.

                      Torque the heads in a star / criss-cross pattern. I then do the single bolt remove / lock-tite deal on those as well.

                      OK, so I'm anal.

                      Hope things go well...
                      -SEF

                      [ June 03, 2003, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Skexies ]

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                      • #12
                        SKEXIES: EMAIL ME AT FORD9ERS@AOL.COM I might want you to rebuild mine!
                        JOE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah I sent two circlips into orbit last night before i got the hang of it... :D

                          I'll probably be ordering the parts Wednesday and maybe get lucky and have it back together by the weekend or early next week. Then it looks like it will be MSX time (although I still wish they'd (parents) give a few more skis a chance....like a STXR or SC 4-Tec.
                          00 SLX<br />03 SVT F-150

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                          • #14
                            MSX isn't bad. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img] Polaris should have done more with the insides to match the outsides. the 150 is tweeked like the s2000 honda... you change anything other than adding NOS or bumping compression and you can expect to just spend money to go slower. The 140 needs serious aftermarket support in the race scene otherwise it is a pointless effort. Polaris has not been a major contender in watercraft, mostly snow mobiles and on the surface I have not seen that changing much.

                            STX-R seems like hella fun but man, guys are breaking stuff on the courses. either the sponsons [beach house] are breaking in races or the steering cables or whatever. Mighty fast when tweeked up a little bit but not without their issues. SUre people might rag on the POLs for not turning worth a rats a&& or being slow.... but it ain't all that and a bucket of rice on the other side of things.

                            seadoo SC??? reminds me of the import sports car problem of the 90's bigger heavier, oh and more HP.... eventually so big & heavy that they should have been called luxury performers rather than sports cars. [ala 300ZX, 3000 GTVR4, etc etc etc]

                            honda turbo R & fx turbo have more potential when you turn up the wick. I've thought about buying one and tweeking it out. My background is in import turbo 4 stroke performance anyway. [motorcycle & car]

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                            • #15
                              JOE:

                              You have mail.

                              Sirhc:

                              I have 3 factory 1200 domes if you are interested in them. [img]/graemlins/winkanim.gif[/img]

                              [ June 04, 2003, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: Skexies ]

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