Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

[CHADC880]

Ok so I have a 1997 Waveventure 1100 with 126hours on the clock. Everything runs perfect and I can get it up to 57mph tops on a clear day. Plus I weigh 228lbs. Is this a decent speed. Also is the 1100 a good engine. When I first bought it with 120hours I removed the oil injection and run a 40/1 mixture.


Issue:

I was looking at the Honda PWC and the new FX140 but from what I am seeing they run about the same MPH except for the turbo model.

The 1997 Waveventure 1100 looks alot like the XL1200 and XL700 are they somewhat the same ??

Last but not least heres the technical question:

My friend has a 1995 Waveraider 1100 with 175hous. I also removed his oil injection pump when he bought it at the first part of this summer. His raider runs awsome at full speed (63mph) but when you first take off after idling it wants to bog down and shut off. If you pull the choke out just alittle it picks right up and goes great. It also idles fine too. The ski had sat for 1 year to 2 years before he bought it and it did have fuel stablizer in it. I drained the tank before we went out in it. He has been to the lake 4 times already running about a total of 5 hours and the ski still does the same. I work on small engines all the time but if the carbs need rebuilding then why does it idle and run at full speed fine ??


Thanks for the awesome board y'll have!!!!

[99gp1200]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

A stock Venture will do 52. A stock Raider will do 58. Speedo's are optimistic
on most PWC

[AquatraxRider]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

Hi Chad:

I have ridden pretty extensively with someone who had a late model FX-140. I have a late model F-12X ("The turbo model"). Both were bone stock and we both weighed about 170. We switched back and fourth throughout the day.

At the end of the day we both agreed performance wise they were about equal. In a really long race I would stomp. In a really short raise I would get stomped. My Honda has a higher top speed ("turbo comes on") but the supercharged FX-140 wins every time in the holeshot ("turbo lag").

The Optomistic-meter on mine has seen 63 on glass with a tail wind or up the Missouri river (current contributes to the speedo). Every account I've heard on GPS and RADAR reports 55 for the F-12/R-12 and 58 for the turbo models.

Aside from Honda's logo, "Pure Performance", we both really liked the sound of the Honda better. They are very quiet and smooth. I've had fisherman comment about how nice it is. I guess most fisherman have learned to equate waverunner with annoying noise.

We all know which one I like better...


Regards,
Bill

[CHADC880]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

So there is a supercharges FX140 or is this the one considered the HO model ???


I am hearing that the 4 cylinder 4 strokes are very quiet but that the noisy 2 stroke 3 cylinders have more take off power than the 4 strokes. I love my Venture totally. I use to own a raider 701 before and the power difference and stable ride and like night and day. Now my friends raider 1100 hauls butt, however if your take a tight turn at a high speed the raider will through you completely off and that crap hurts. The Venture is so awesome when it comes to handling. Now the Honda I like because I have always been a Honda person from Motorcycles to my wife and I owning 2 Honda Autos.

If the Venture is going to be a few MPH slower than the Honda then I will wait a few years till I feel its worth spending $7000 more for a new Ski.

However I still need help on the Raider Carb Issue.

Thanks,

Chad

[99gp1200]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

No Yamaha comes form the factory with a supercharger (yet). Riva
sells one for the FX's.

[AquatraxRider]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

Hi Chad:

If you are buying new go four-stroke. There are only a couple two-stroke models still in production. If you're buying used you probably won't get a four-stroke for a while. The newness hasn't wore off with many people yet.

You can probably ask around but be sure to estimate the extra maintenance and fuel consumption costs associated with a two-stroke. The guys here can probably tell you better but I think 200 hours is about overhaul time for most two-strokes. Four-strokes go much longer, but if something does break are MUCH more expensive to rebuild.

I know all about the auto-injectors breaking and toasting engines but how do you refuel on the water? Doesn't this limit your range substantially? One guy at work who has been riding waverunners for a while tells me that is the number one thing he likes about my F-12X - you can get gas anywhere (it's rated 86 octane or better).


Regards,
Bill

[CHADC880]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

The gas consumption issue doens't bother me too much. My Venture is actually perfect fuel wise. I mean I can run 50 to 60 miles before refueling and considering I only use no more than a half of tank during the entire day at the lake I am ok. Second the 1100's are good up to 500 hours if the oil injection is removed and they are probally cared for. Now the 4 strokes I like for the quietness smoothness, and the don't smoke like the 2 strokes. But your right if something does go wrong with the 4 stroke it can be very very expensive.

[poser]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

The raider 1100 takes a little practice to make high speed turns. I guarantee I could take you on a closed course due to less weight. The hesitation during acceleration is probably from the needle sticking in the seat. Your friend could take the cover off, remove the needle and seat, clean them and put it back together wothout a kit. Just make sure the diaphragms don't have any holes. (hold up to light)

2 strokes will last much longer than 200 hours if you learn to take care of them. I've got no Idea how long a 4 stroke will last. if it ingests some water, goodbye valve :) .
The only real benefit is the reduced noise, which I myself do not consider a benefit.

but thats just me, I also wouldn't get a 3 seater.

[Technical Support]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

Needles are not cleanable, once grooved they must be replaced, period.

[CHADC880]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

This message goes to Tech Support :


I read your post on the using the search method. Just was weird how you posted this right after my first question. Anyway: can you answer this question once and for all it seems like alot of people have this hesitation with the 1100's after some time and I still have not seen any post even using the search before you posted your message on someone explaining this once and for all. I understand carbs like water and I rebuilt motorcycle carbs all the time but I do not understand how a jetski carb really truely works. And yes I have seen all of SBT's videos. I know the basics of the jets and so fourth but how does the needle and diaphram work for the engine to get gas without having a float bowl ?? If and if so or not why would rebuilding the carbs with a rebuilt kit change this problem with the hesitation ?? What would I be changing that will correct this problem ?? Thats all I want to know.


Thanks,

Chad

[Technical Support]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

I don't even recall what your post was, it had nothing to do with you.

Short carb version:

The carb is pressurized via a pulse action diaphram fuel pump. That fuel pressure is built up in the pump chamber and directed through the filter into the regulator chamber (excess fuel pressure bled back to the tank). The passage through the carb after the filter is met by the needle and seat. The needle is in a lever arm, pressurizing the needle into the seat via a spring. The pressure needed to unseat the needle and overcome the spring is called pop-off pressure. A diaphram covers the regulator chamber, making a pocket of fuel with the needle as the inlet, and the jets as the outlet. The diaphram has a hard center, that when sucked down by the fuel being used up in regulator chamber, presses against the lever arm. This 'pops' the needle, allowing fuel to again refill the chamber. The fuel is leaving because it is being sucked out through the carb throat. The carbs have multiple passages to stream fuel. The low speed circuits are small holes in the side of the carb throat. As the throttle plate is cracked open, these holes are exposed to the air rushing past them around the plate. This causes a vaccum and sucks the fuel out the holes. That fuel comes from the regulator chamber. The high speed circuit operates in a similar manner, except the outlet holes are in the center 'bombsight' of the carb. There isn't enough suction by the holes on the side of the throat when the throttle plate is more than 30% or so open, so it requires a tapered section to make it's own vaccum pressure for more fuel. Again, this fuel is coming from the regulator chamber. Obviously this chamber only holds about .5oz of fuel, and needs to refill rapidly. The pop-off pressure needs to be in a certain range to balance against the available vaccum in the carb throat. If there isn't much of this 'signal' then the required pop-off pressure must be low, or the chamber has a very hard time if at all, refilling and the carb starves for fuel. If on the other hand pressure is set too low, the chamber fills too easily, or stays flowing. This results in very muddy throttle response, or carbs that constantly leak fuel out the holes and the engine is over rich.

As far as correcting a problem, if it's hesitating and is still stock, it's ususally that the rubber tipped needles have begun to develop grooves, and are either leaking fuel past the seats, or are sticking closed. Either case gives hesitation.

If it's from a recent modification, such as installing aftermarket air filters, pop-off must be adjusted to match the now changed carb siganl. The more restrictive an airbox (anything above the carb) is, the more suction is created by the engine through the carbs, and thus pop-off needs to be higher. Aftermarket filters are often much less restrictive than stock, and thus less signal - less pop-off needed.

[poser]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

The needle/seat size and spring tension determine pop off pressure. These parts do the job of the float bowl. The pop off pressure is what affects throttle positions between idle and full throttle. More specifically it controls the transition between the two. If the needle is sticking to the seat, greater fuel pressure (pop off pressure) is needed to open the valve. This means that the carb isn't getting enough fuel when you hit it hard. once you get to the point where the needle moves away from the seat, fuel flows properly. A dirty needle could also restrict fuel flow when the valve is all the way open.

these links should explain everything
http://www.groupk.com/carbtune.html
http://www.groupk.com/carbtune98.html

[poser]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

guess I'm just too slow

[CHADC880]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

Absolutely perfect. This is the information I have long been awaiting for.


Thank you very much because this gives me the perfect explaination of why and what could be wrong.

Here is a side kick for you. On my Waveventure which runs nearly perfect when I nail it from a stand idle in the water it runs a tiddle bit rich then pulls off perfect. Looking through the search I have noticed alot of people have this same problem. I have blocked off the oil injection and run a 40/1 mix. Is this the idle mixure than may need the 1/8 turn in to adjust for this ??

By the way both the Raider and Venture are both 100% bone stock. The Venture has 126hours on it with perfect compression at 120 exact on all cylinders. The Raider has 175hours on it with 119 on all cylinders.


Thanks again.

Chad

[Technical Support]

Re: Yamaha's 1100 Question and Waveventure

Yes I would start by turning in your low speed screws 1/8th turn.