Break-in oil

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

Ok Frankey, i agree on that. Now, what's the cause of all the oil coming out the PTO carb throat? Blown crank seal, RV problem? I obviousley need to tear this thing down and start from scratch, am i right?

[Joe Snuffy]

Re: Break-in oil

I liked Bills diagnoses that it might be a loose needle bearing left in the cases and when you reved it up it got sucked up in the motor. Maybe it got into the bearing where the rotary shaft is and took out the crank seal which holds the oil bath that lubes the rotary shaft? Has your 2 stroke oil level considerbly dropped in your holding tank? Did you use and what type did you take out? the needle bearings that are in a cage or are they the loose style?

I am just thinking out loud but what if you took off the carb manifold so you could suck the oil out of the bottom of the cases (with a oil pump like used to change the oil in marine engines using a small hose through the intake port on the side of the cases) then take a marker and mark the level of the 2 stroke oil in the holding tank then watch that level over a period of time (1-2 days) to see if its dropping fast that would tell you I think if you had a crank seal problem. Maybe you just put to much oil in the engine? You could also inspect the oil you pump out for metal shavings that would also be an indicator that something is internally wrong?

I also think you need to check your fuel supply from the tank, filter, fuel selector, and pull the carbs down (possible while your watching the 2 stroke oil level) to see if their is blockage and/or need rebuilding. Put fresh fuel in maybe the fuel has water in it?


Just some ideas,
Joe

ps I see where your from VA I live in East TN I could help you look at it if your not to far away from Johnson City.

[frankey01]

Re: Break-in oil

I would say tear it down and check all parts I would say that you could get away with taking off the carbs and rotary cover and see what that looks like in there and if need to go farther then do that.

[Bill O'Neal2]

Re: Break-in oil

Broken bearings or berring rollers left in a case do not take out oil seals, they get sucked into the clyinder and do damge to the piston top, and or caught between the rotary valve and the port edge in the case and rv cover and do damge to the RV and RV gear.

Take that motor apart too see what is wrong with it.

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

First off, they were caged needle bearings. I am 100% sure i didn't drop anything in the crank case while doing the topend. So, i'm gonna go with Bill and tear it apart, just might never get it back together(money thing)..we'll see and i will keep you guys posted as to what i find out. Thanks again for all the opinions and advice.

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

Well, i yanked the head.....SOB, front cylder has 2 gooves in it. Looks like i'm the idiot here. My theory....i didn't get a circlip in all the way, thus it let loose and caused it to lock uo. Me forcing it to unlock caused the circlip to drop in the crankcase. Trying to get it going again caused the wrist pin to float out scoring the sleeve. Do you all agree? Also, if i can find it(i have not tore the thing apart yet), do you think i also did crank damage? Crappy thing is, is i think i'm at my max on the bore, pistons are 84.00mm, clearance .0050 as of now and this is a 97 XP. Before i put this thing to sleep, any suggestions would be nice.


Thanks

[frankey01]

Re: Break-in oil

Since you know you are going to have to do a rebuild and you may be way out on bore left maybe find you some usable ones to do the exchange with SBT on the cylinders

[Joe Snuffy]

Re: Break-in oil

Tough break, I have seen that damage to the cylinder wall before when the circlip pops out. It might be possible to get that cylinder honed/machined out to the .010 (Max clearance allowed for by wiseco I am guessing .010) clearance since your using the Wiseco pistons. Then take a look at cylinder to see if it will work. Those grooves can be pretty deep so it might not work. Just a thought.

Joe

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

Well, i'm gonna yank the top end and see what my machinist says. Believe it or not the rings and pistons are intact as far as i can see, truth be told when i see the whole piston. As for crank damage, you all think i should tear it right down and split the cases even if i can find the circlip? The PTO side is fine...does that stike anybody weird, cause that's the side the oil was coming out the carb throat. Am i looking at a whole new engine....cause i'm using a Polaris card to fix this thing, so I cannot come up with cash right now to put a new engine in.

Thanks once again

[Joe Snuffy]

Re: Break-in oil

I would find out what the maximum allowable clearance is for a Wiseco piston so I could tell my machinist that info (he might not know for sure) I thought you had seen the whole piston so my guess is its messed up also.

If it were mine I would wan't to take it apart and inspect it for further damage and just inspect the crank, seals, bearings, etc and to try and find the circlip or whats left of it. I would also want to clean it up while I was in there there those metal shavings can hide in a lot of nooks and cranny's. Is your 2 stroke oil level dropping that would be a sign that the seals on the crank are leaking badly if not thats a good sign and you know that the seals will probablly work if everything else looks ok.

Joe

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

I will check with my machinist. Also, i think your right joe.....cases need to be split, sorry......i'm just frustrated right now, i just can't believe i didn't catch that........guess this puppy won't be running this summer at myself.:emoticonc , to all the opinions and advice, have a drink on me and happy skiing this summer, be safe.

[Joe Snuffy]

Re: Break-in oil

Its a tough break. When I was a boy I had a dirt bike and I put rings in it and I used the old circlip (I know you didn't) since money was tight and it popped out and did the same kind of damage. So I know how it feels its a sickining feeling.

This is not the way you are suppose to do stuff and I don't encourage it but I was young no money and so I decided to spend the day sanding the side of the cylinder with emory cloth to get the gouge out of it I then cleaned up the piston with emory cloth and used a finger nail file to clean up the piston so the rings wouldn't stick. I new the rings on the 2 stroke didn't revolve and I knew the bore wouldn't be totally round but I thought what the heck I had nothing to loose and everything to gain. I ran the bike for 3 years after that.

I have noticed since then that sometimes you have to be very sure that the circlip has actually seated in the piston. Sometimes it might seem to have when it is still not seated all the way especially when your putting one in that the motor is still in the boat or on a motorcycle.

Good luck,

Joe

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

Thanks for that Joe, but i'm not that young.....I just thought, hell i triple checked to see if them circlips were seated, well i guees one wasn't, cause by the sleeve damage you can tell it came loose. Anyways, my screw up, my loss.....might just be next summer before i get her running.(and yes i used new circlips and wist pins). Anyways guys, thanks again......it will be running within the next year, cause nobody would buy this pile of crap.:emoticond , at least i have something to tear into now, get to challenge myself even further.:emoticont

[flyboy31]

Re: Break-in oil

Well, i got the cylinders off today and i was right. A circlip popped out and the wrist pin floated out leaving the 2 gouges. I found part of it sitting right there under the piston, unfortunatley i can't find the rest.....so, split the cases it is. Also upon inspection i found a gouge in the piston, highley unlikely it's going to be salvagable. How frustrating, $600.00 down the toilet. Maybe next summer

[Joe Snuffy]

Re: Break-in oil

Thanks for the update. Keep and eye on ebay I picked up 2 new wiseco pistons/rings for my ski for 125 bucks. Also if I can help let me know. We have a local machine shop here that bores and hones a set (2 clylinders) for 62 bucks total.

Joe