2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

[Shogun]

First, these forums are great! Glad that I found them and I am hoping that I can get back on the water in short order.

I have a 2000 XL1200 Limited. Recently had it out on the lake and during a run at full speed, it bogged down and I could only get about 25 mph out of it. Took it out of the water, found some rocks in the intake grate, inspected the impeller which looked undamaged, checked to make sure no fishing line or anything else had wrapped itself around the driveshaft, all the plugs were firing, and still couldn't get it run right.

Took it into the shop and they called me and said I need a new engine. Huh? What? With only 50 some hours? They found out that there is 0 psi compression pressure on the #3 cylinder. Bummer for me.

I have since found this forum and now realize that this seems to be a fairly common problem. So, this past weekend I removed the Stinger and then the exhaust last night. Removed the cylinder head and here's a picture of my #3 cylinder.

#3 cylinder, piston head

Cylinder Head - the far left one was over the 3rd cylinder.



I think that this is Cylinder #2.

Obviously this is a minimum of a #3 cylinder/piston rebuild, but first I want to know what could have caused this? Looks like melting due to overheating - would this be from oil starvation? How long would this have been going on before catastrophic failure like this? 1 day, weeks, months?

I bought this used a few years ago and have probably only put on 10-14 hours since then, and probably only 2-3 this summer. This was only the second time I had it out on the water this summer and this happened about 40 minutes into the session.

So, I'd appreciate your wisdom and guidance.

1. What could have caused this type of damage?

2. What's my next step? Remove the engine, remove the cylinder and piston and check the crank for any metal remnants?

I rebuilt a motorcycle engine many years ago (when I was a teenager) - I am ok mechanically and think that I can do this. I definitely can do the whole engine replacement, but I'd certainly rather do something that costs less if it means having to tear into the engine a little bit, for example if I have to replace the crankshaft.

Thanks!

[boudin]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

Hi Shogun. I just bought the exact same ski (2000 XL1200 LTD) and it also has 0 psi in cylinder #3 (I knew this and got a good price). I too am curious to see the diagnosis on your ski.

-Boudin

[Shogun]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

I was able to get into the cylinder this weekend and see the damage to the piston. There is some slight damage to the cylinder wall, not sure if that happened first and caused the piston to catch on it, damaging the rest of the piston.

There is also a little bit of water in the bottom of the crankcase - I would guess maybe a tablespoon's worth or so. Could this have caused this type of damage?

I read on another board that towing could introduce water into the engine & crankcase - I had to tow another 1200 not too long before this happened.

Cylinder looking at it from the left/port side.


Looking down into the crankcase


Looking at the piston from the right/starboard side


Cylinder sleeve - there's a small hole that lines up some head damage on the piston


You can see the damage on the piston head that lines up with the damage within the cylinder wall. What came first - the piston damage or the cylinder wall damage? (Chicken or egg?)

Next steps?
So, what's next? I couldn't find any LARGE metal fragments, so I'm assuming that whatever broke off the cylinder was pulverized by the crank and motion of the crank, piston, etc., or blown out the exhaust. Looks like I need to pull the engine and at least clean up the crank.

How do I determine whether or not I can re-use the crank?

Thanks!

[tow869]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

hi i have the same jetski mine is a 99 1200 xl ltd it blown the third cylynder also and i seen a crack int the upper crankcase you might want to check that also i had to replace the cylynder sleeve also and the piston
if you have the same problem let me know we could could come up with an answer!

[boudin]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

When I was removing the motor last night in my XL1200 LTD I noticed the #3 oil line was no longer connected. It also scored the cylinder walls pretty badly.

I ordered an SBT cylinder exchange kit, carb rebuild kits, oil pump block off, and PV lever link replacements. I also plan to split the bottom end and make sure there are no metal fragments in the crank case.

-Boudin

[Shogun]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

All my oil lines into the carb seem to be intact. There was an oil line that comes off the oil pump that was loose and it appears to actually go back INTO the oil reservoir at the top. My guess is that it's some sort of overflow or backpressure line.

I have always had a little bit of oil in the bilge, figured there was a small leak. Good to know that I found the source.

Someone has mentioned to me that they think that my other cylinders are too black, possibly from running too rich. So, I'm going to rebuild the carbs as well.

I pretty much have the same gameplan as you - crack the case to clean out the crank and crankcase and put everything together with a single cylinder/piston replacement kit.

Good luck! We've got some good winter projects in front of us!

:D

PS Thought it was interesting how badly scored your cylinder wall was. This is what mine looks like - pretty smooth except for a small portion missing around an intake port.

[boudin]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

After talking with SBT, the challenge with replacing just one cylinder is that they are nickel-plated from the factory, so I could not order just one new re-sleeved cylinder (mixing them) as there would be heat transfer problems. Also, actually finding a good used factory cylinder is another challenge.

All-in-all, it was about the same price buying the complete exchange kit with re-sleeved cylinders, pistons, rings, and gaskets as buying a single OEM cylinder and piston.

I also ordered a case of Amsoil Interceptor synthetic as I'm told it does not gum up the power valves like ordinary 2 stroke oil. In fact, I'm going to switch all my skis to this oil (makes it simpler). SBT said that 50:1 is fine with the Amsoil synthetic, even for the PV motors. I've read elsewhere that people really like this oil.

I'm debating on whether to do the Riva D-Plate mod, which removes the catalytic converter.

-Boudin

PS. I think the previous owner rode the ski for a little while before he realized it didn't sound right and shut it down. This may account for the scoring.

[boudin]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

Just an update... this rebuild is complete and I'm planning on breaking it in tomorrow (using SBT break-in oil). A few details:

• I split the crank case and did find some metal fragments in the bottom. Also one of the bearings was a little squeeky (the one closes to the blown cylinder). I worked some oil in, and it is now very smooth (like the other bearings).
• Leak-down test dropped .5 PSI (that's half a PSI) in 7 minutes... traced to a couple of power valve seals leaking slightly--no big deal.
• Compression is 115 across all cylinders (my gauge always reads a bit low).
• Rebuilt the carbs, pop off adjusted to 60 PSI on all carbs (changed the springs).
• Like everyone, I struggled with stinger removal/installation (I'd like to meet the engineer that designed this arrangement--bad).
• It starts!

[boudin]

Re: 2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

Update... After the first two perfect 30-minute break-in runs, the ski died with no spark. I traced this to the CDI, replaced it and the ski is now running again. I plan to finish the break-in next weekend. http://www.pwctoday.com/f14/00-xl120...ms-253402.html

[D.calry]

2000 XL1200Ltd Blown 3rd Cylinder

Been a while, but from memory yes, it has to come out of the bike for the head to come off

That hose is tight, but some gentle persuasion will see it slide out